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05 November 2009

West Oakland murmurs

I'll start off with a brief chunk from Chip Johnson's Tuesday column.
And even though she is among the first 200 residents to live at Central Station, mere rumors about A's owner Lew Wolff sniffing around Middle Harbor for a new ballpark site have her already concerned about growth.
Area residents don't need me to point out where Middle Harbor is. For those who aren't familiar, it's the westernmost end of West Oakland. Geographically it's situated between the Bay Bridge to the north and the old Alameda Naval Air Station to the south.

I'm curious to see if a ballpark proposal has Middle Harbor as the site. Ever since the military closed up shop there, a combination of business (port expansion) and environmental efforts (wetlands regeneration) has been the ongoing concern. It's hard to say where a ballpark could go or what a plan would entail. West Oakland BART is over a mile 2 miles away and around Middle Harbor the train line descends before becoming the Transbay Tube, making a new station a tall order. And there's the worry that the area is in Nancy Nadel's district, and she's well known for not putting the A's anywhere on her priority list.

Still, I'd like to see if there's anything to this, if for no other reason than to see what opportunities are out there.

95 comments:

Jeffrey said...

Interesting. So in Oakland we have potential sites (though planless at present)of Howard Terminal (ruled out in 2002), the Coliseum parking Lot, and Middle Harbor Park. It shall be fun to read through any potential plans.

Anonymous said...

2 links to ebrpd middle harbor site....no links to chip johnsons article....oops.

Marine Layer said...

9:12 - Fixed.

Anonymous said...

I just came across the "Lets Go Oakland: Keep the A's in Oakland" facebook page and as of yesterday morning there was about 5,000 members and this morning there is now over 6,000 and counting. From what I was told by a friend was that just last week there was about 4,000 so it looks like the numbers are growing pretty quick.

I've also checked the two A's to San Jose groups ("Hey MLB, The Time Has Come for the San Jose A's!" & "Baseball San Jose") out of curiousity and they've been sitting at 153 and 885 respectively for some time now. Plus the "Baseball San Jose" blog has constantly been updated for some time now and still has absolutely zero comments from readers. The last time anyone did comment was around March of this year.

I don't know what any of this means since I personally do not use FB, but it at least looks like Oakland is truly making an effort to gain support to show that the fan base is there. We just need a new ballpark and an owner who gives a damn about our city!

http://www.facebook.com/letsgooakland?ref=ts

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=53455903653&ref=search&sid=1018343319.720467184..1

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=65559831564&ref=mf

Anonymous said...

AT&T Park is just about a mile from BART. This West Oakland area has a long ways to go to have the newly evolved ambience/amenities of China Basin/South of Market, but all the recent activity we're hearing about, makes it an intriguing possibility. There is definitely some elbow room there, and a great central location for fans coming from all directions.

Anonymous said...

at last wolff looking in oakland where the team belongs.

Dan said...

It's an interesting idea for a site, but I thought the Giants objected to the A's coming into their territory? Put the A's literally on the opposite end of the Bay Bridge and Transbay Tube from Pac Bell and you couldn't get the two teams any closer than if the A's were playing in Pac Bell itself.

LeAndre said...

Nancy Nadel is the devil...she would be public enemy number one if Wolff is serious about this site...but man, talk about waterfront. This would be amazing...not a lot of dining around that area though, thats my main concern

Marine Layer said...

I have to make a couple of preemptive answers to the questions that will undoubtedly arise.

1. No, the ballpark cannot face west. Batters would be looking right into the sun and thus would be blinded while admiring the SF skyline.

2. The Port would have to approve the new land use, which would include acres and acres of parking. Since this is a fairly active part of the Port, how this would happen is a headscratcher.

3. I underestimated the distance to West Oakland BART. It's actually 2 miles.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the "Lets Go Oakland" FB group has gained an additional 500 members since this morning!

Jesse said...

Mere Rumors. When has Wolff given any of us any indication that he is willing to sniff anything in Oakland?

Anonymous said...

Gee...number of members on FB or support from the SVLG? No, Lew Wolff isn't looking at west Oakland.
In reality, the coliseum parking lot is a better site then WO. By the way, when did FB membership become relevant to where the A's play? (psss...it isn't)

Mercator said...

AT&T Park is just about a mile from BART.
[Compared to two miles for Middle Harbor]

And let's not forget that AT&T is even closer to other rail mass transit -- the Embarcadero/3rd St. light rail line stops right at the ballpark, and the Caltrain heavy rail line is one block away.

Located a 45-minute walk from the closest rail stop, Middle Harbor is not a very good ballpark site in terms of public transit service accessibility.

Objective people familiar with Oakland might be able to answer this question -- how many minutes' walk is this site from the urban commericial amenities that we find across the street from AT&T, and can reasonably expect to find reasonably near the SJ Diridon site both right now now, and then soon after completion if a ballpark were built there?

(P.S. and FYI -- my verification word is "plicks". Should I look for some deep hidden meaning there?)

FC said...

OT

What happened to the Anon poster who several weeks ago said that "we are about to see a whole lot of movement and information in the next few weeks starting with the World Series"?

Anonymous said...

As for Facebook groups, how many of those "Keep the A's in Oakland" people are fearing the A's moving out of state, not down the road?

Anonymous said...

Well, I guess one good thing about a WO ballpark is that from the last row of the upper deck, you could simply turn around and catch a Giants game at AT&T; as if you were also sitting at a AT&T left field grandstand (albeit with a little water between you and the field.
Now this would be an excellent arrangement for the two Bay Area teams and their ballparks. MLB will definitely approve of this (sarcasm).

Anonymous said...

I love this. Muni extends it's rail line, what 5 or 6 years after the ballpark went in, San Jose might get BART in 2018, but Oakland has to have equivalent stuff in place ahead of time or be disqualified...

Anonymous said...

It's funny that I just checked the A's to San Jose FB groups and it looks like since Anon 10:19's post from this morning, they've gained a whopping 6 new members TOTAL.

I guess San Jose now feels the need to try to get that started again even though we all know that group was created some time ago.

Oh and it looks like Oakland's group is now close to 7,000 members. That's about an average of 1000 new people joining each day to show that we the fans are here to show our support. We truly need and would like a new ballpark in OAKLAND!

Marine Layer said...

10:05 - West Oakland isn't downtown. Are you comfortable with sending 10,000+ cars into the area with only a bus transit alternative?

10:50 - There are few things easier than to click the "Become a Fan" link on FB. Filling out an online petition is only slightly more difficult. We need solutions, not signatures.

Anonymous said...

It's amazing to think that a stone's throw away from the Bay Bridge toll plaza, the Transbay BART tube, and the worlds 4th busiest harbour, that somehow a transportation solution can't be devised. I guess for some, no problem is too small.

Marine Layer said...

11:21 - None of the things you cited help solve the problem. BART's buildout and the Port actually exacerbate the problem. Don't mistake realism for "small problems." Ignore the issues at your peril.

Anonymous said...

Gaining signature is only part of the solution ML. I'm sure they've been working on a plan which will be part of the solution that will be implemented in with the steps that they have already taken up to this point. Just because you haven't seen or heard about their plan doesn't mean Oakland isn't doing what they can to come up with a solution.

Mercator said...

I love this. Muni extends it's rail line, what 5 or 6 years after the ballpark went in, San Jose might get BART in 2018, but Oakland has to have equivalent stuff in place ahead of time or be disqualified...

These are all red herrings.
The significant portion of the Muni line -- the part that goes north to downtown and and connects with other Muni lines and with BART, was there at the beginning. As was Caltrain. And as was BART itself.

In SJ, the light rail is already in place, and so is Caltrain.

What will Middle Harbor have in, say, four or five years? A setting in a grim industrial zone with a container terminal, an elevated freeway, and rail yards, and a largely unpleasant 45 minute walk (with no alternative routes) to the only feasible rail transit station. I guess those aren't bugs, they're features.

I can't believe the facebook references here.
This is all sarcasm, right?

Anonymous said...

At the end of the day MLB is just perpetuating these fantasies of Oakland--the face book references are a joke--lets see--I can set-up an unlimited amount of facebook accounts by creating free email accounts--means nothing--a west oakland site--not much of an option even for the most ardent Oakland supporters--

Who knows what the hell MLB is waiting on--the October...err I mean the November classic is over--another year of "study" has passed by---absolutely ridiculous---I figured out the other day that by the time a stadium is built anywhere my kids who are in 7th and 8th grade will be moving onto college--and LW will be pushing late 70's--

Analyisis leads to paralysis--and folks that's what we have here--no one (BS and group) can make a decision--as much as I would like to see SJ happen I am having a hard time believing it will--and the odds of Oakland happening--0-none---hate to say it but I can see the A's being sold to an out-of-area investor before any shovels move dirt in the bay area

Ezra said...

Last time I drove through west Oakland, the area seemed rather desolate. Not a good place to have a ball park at all. Albeit, this was 5 years ago, when I was living in Alameda. Has the area really improved that much that people think putting a ballpark there would be better than at the Coliseum parking lot? Honestly, if you're gonna build a stadium there, you might as well just share Pacbell/SBC/AT&T Park with the Giants...

Clyde Frog said...

Very interesting, and it would be cool to see some animations of the idea. Only thing is, it's in that busy shipping area. So other than the ballpark there isn't anywhere to hang out, unless they planned on expanding the area.

Anonymous said...

Just reading that Facebook group's wall, you see some advocating Sacramento or San Jose and others still talking about Fremont. It's obvious that not all of those people are well-informed or in the "Oakland only" camp. They're just A's fans who want to see their team become successful.

Jeffrey said...

I am a member of both baseball san jose and let's go oakland on facebook. I joined both hoping to get information about plans.

I asked both creators about plans.

Let's Go Oakland's creator wrote on my wall that they are not supporting any specific plan just getting signatures on a web based petition that is aiming to show that folks want to keep the A's in Oakland. They will let the City actually devise a plan.

On Baseball San Jose there are links to the plan we have all seen for San Jose.

What I find fascinating is the continued bullshit about the A's fans needing to be for or against one of the two cities.

I am for whichever city can put together a real plan that will work to keep the A's in the Bay Area for the next 40 years so that my kids can take their kids to A's games like my parents and grandparents did with me. If they both come up with a plan, great! But Oakland Only guys, start pushing your City to release a plan, name a site, or put something of substance forward. An online petition and facebook group are fine and dandy but they mean almost nothing at this stage of the game.

Consider that the facebook group and online petition that supports a concept are in competition with a site/plan with an EIR in process (and once approved) and an election in March to show real voter support.

Anonymous said...

"and an election in March to show real voter support."

What exactly will the voters be asked to decide? And are we certain we know how the election will go?

Rob C said...

Have people actually looked at where Middle Harbor is? Google satellite

I don't see how this could be a viable site for a ballpark. It is surrounded by port operations.

Anonymous said...

I'll say the one cool thing I have found on FB regarding numbers (even though no one really knows what any of this means)is when I searched the "Official" groups for all the professional teams we have here in the Bay Area, other than the Giants (300K)the A's have the most members by far at almost 200K fans. The third highest number of members goes to the Niners at about 78K.

Who would've thought??

Jeepers said...

Well said, Jeffrey. I happen to favor keeping the A's in Oakland, but your observations regarding Oakland are spot-on. If San Jose does a better job of meeting the A's needs, then so be it.

gojohn10 said...

I agree with Jeffrey. Maybe we should start a "Keep the A's in the Bay" facebook group :)

Marine Layer said...

The election is expected next November, not March. That means the owners don't have to take any action until next year's winter meetings.

Jeffrey said...

Yeah, sorry on the March v. November thing. I was a little excited.

Anon 8:47- I find it humorous that the only thing you took out of all of that was that there will be an election. The issue at hand will be whether the residents of San Jose support the ballpark plan, though the details of the exact ballot item are not known as of yet.

And, of course we don't know what the results will be. Until the full detail of the financing/lease agreement are known how would anyone know if they should support the plan or not?

The point is... San Jose is doing something as compared to the crickets that have been echoing from Oakland "leaders" for a loooooong time now.

Facebook fan page and innocuous online petition to support nothing aside, of course.

Anonymous said...

Rob C, I doubt there's any interest in the location at the shoreline park there.

Notice instead though, some large tracts halfway from there toward WO BART. Some of that is left over from the Army's old MTMC days. Don't know the status, I actually worked there in the 80s and 90s. BART comes out of the ground right along the top of the that big black lot. A station might go in right smack there at ground level, maybe? Maritime and Middle Harbor roads could remain the arteries for Port activity, while some integration of 7th Street and the Nimitz into this area could keep a ballpark and the Port fairly harmonious. There are a couple existing restaurants and other business inside just a half-mile radius, lots more if you go the 1 mile out to West Oakland BART.

There's a lot to do here, and this is probably just a useless rumor, but still, it doesn't seem impossible. One great thing is that you're literally a couple minutes from 80, 580, and 880 all at the same time.

Anonymous said...

I'd join that group, gojohn.

Anonymous said...

a's should move to sacramento ... more fans for the a's there than in the bay area ... that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

Sacramento? They're having a hard enough time keeping a basketball team there.

Navigator said...

For those of you who haven't been to West Oakland recently, you'd be in for a big surprise. The area is transforming quite nicely. There are new lofts and housing everywhere, with plans for another 1200 homes in the Central Station project, http://welcomeaboard.com/ near the old train station on Wood Street.

Also, Mandela Parkway looks great with the beautiful new landscaping and paths. The demolition of the old Cypress Freeway has opened up the area and given new life to the neighborhood. Also, the tremendous views of the Bay around Middle Harbor easily rival those at AT&T Park.

West Oakland has tremendous potential with a great climate, open space, and easy access to anywhere in the Bay Area. Lew Wolff should be salivating over the tremendous potential in West Oakland. The amenities now lacking in West Oakland will come with the influx of the thousands of new residents as these housing developments are completed.

As far as transportation, the City of Oakland has talked about running light rail from Oak to 9th all the way to Uptown. Why not link the light rail from 12th St. and West Oakland Bart stations, all the way to a ballpark at Middle Harbor?

Personally, I'd prefer the ballpark near Jack London Square or Downtown. However, for a land developer looking for a nearly blank canvas to build a ballpark, West Oakland has tremendous possibilities.

Anonymous said...

8,003 subscribers on Let's go Oakland. Keep it up!

Anonymous said...

More subscribers than season tix holders...interesting

Nav---would you invest $500M of your own money in WO?

Anonymous said...

There could be a million members on a pro-Oakland FB site, but it won't matter one bit to MLB or Lew Wolff. Oh well, keep celebrating the numbers.
Navigator, I could state that a Milpitas dump has tremendous development potential, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. Seriously, West Oakland over Diridon South/SJ?
Oh well, its your world...

Anonymous said...

Wow, over 8,000 at FB. Who are all these A's boosters, and why don't they go to the games?

Anonymous said...

Baseball San Jose gained an additional 4 new members on their FB group over the last few days. Keep it up guys! (Sarcasm)

Lets go Oakland!!!

Anonymous said...

At what number of members does the Facebook group take ownership of the Oakland A's? This is very important stuff, guys. We can revitalize Oakland! Baseball teams stop gang violence!

Navigator said...

I don't have 500 million to invest but currently housing developers are investing hundreds of millions in housing in West Oakland. Obviously they see the potential in the area.

I'll tell you one thing, I would invest in season tickets if I knew the Oakland A's were committed to a new ballpark in Oakland. There's no question that the passion of A's fans is to keep them in Oakland. I'm not saying this to disrespect San Jose, but the passion is for Oakland as evident by the support of "Let's go Oakland." I'm confident that with a commitment to a new ballpark in Oakland those signed petitions would result in new season tickets. Fans are not going to invest their emotions or their money in a team which constantly threatens to leave town. I'm sorry, but leaving for San Jose constitutes "leaving town" to most Oakland A's fans. We can see it in the decline in attendance and lack of overall interest in the team since Lew Wolff has been talking about leaving Oakland.

West Oakland makes since because of the central waterfront location, available land away from any NINBY opposition, great climate, etc.

Also, it would put the Oakland A's in a position to capture and divert the traffic currently heading over the Bay Bridge. Why not face your competition head on? One waterfront ballpark going head on against another. You fight fire with fire.

Anonymous said...

The pathetic post by anon 12:04 begs the question: at what point ML do you shut down all this crap about FB numbers? This has no relevance to the ballpark discussion.

Anonymous said...

FC

MLB Blue Ribbon Committee met with San Jose City Leaders a couple of weeks ago. I've heard from a few people in attendance it was a very remarkable meeting.

City of San Jose, Baseball San Jose, and Pro Baseball for San Jose, Inc., among others, took out a full page ad (page 97) in the Official 2009 World Series program. It has listed some of the reasons why the A's will be in San Jose soon. You ought to take a look at it. I think you can still buy the programs on the web, but they are $15 plus shipping...www.mlb.com.

Jeffrey said...

Hey, keep the a's in the bay on facebook.

Anonymous said...

The guy behind the "Let's Go Oakland" FB page is a recent Stanford grad who was "New Media Director" for the Obama campaign in Nevada. Would this be an even bigger upset for him to pull off? LOL!

FC said...

Nav,

Passion involves more than just spending a few minutes to setup a Face Book account, or signing a sheet of paper. I fail to see how anyone can draw any kind of reasoned, well thought out conclusion from just looking at those number. To do so would simply be foolish.

Maybe if you and your fellow Oakland supporters would have shown more support for the A's, they wouldn't be looking to leave.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:16,

The relevance is that if you visit your "Baseball to San Jose" blogs, you'll see that there are absolutely zero comments which tells me no one is reading the blog and no one in San Jose really gives a damn. It's the San Jose partisans that visit this site regularly that wants the A's down south. The few hundred of you that are out there. Comparing the numbers from Let's Go Oakland and the San Jose FB groups, obviously there is more passion coming from us than you guys.

Anonymous said...

That "Baseball San Jose!" FB page has too many old guys in business suits as members ;) And a whopping 15 people have pledged to buy season tickets. I realize this is all just academic fun and games, not truly relevant to the A's ballpark issue, but it is still pretty entertaining to see the whopping success on the Oakland page (9,000 members in a week and a half), and the embarrassing flop for the San Jose side (900 members in nearly a year).

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 9:38,
There's actually a real world that exists outside of Facebook. A world that includes the city of SJ, the SVLG, MLB, and folks who want the A's in SJ. But go ahead; celebrate within "The Matrix" of FB!

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:15,

I'm sure you are also a "faithful" FB user. I'm also sure a ballpark in San Jose could possibly fail miserably considering that people in the REAL WORLD obviously doesn't seem to care about a possible move except for the 900 or so members who have joined the pro San Jose group. No user comments on the blog what's so ever over the past 8 or 9 months.

These things might not mean a whole lot to you guys, but I bet these numbers will indicate to MLB and the Commissioner which city "the people" actually wants the A's in their town. Judging by the looks of things, San Jose residents don't seem to show much interest except for those commenting on this blog and hating on Oakland. Who actually has even been reading the Baseball to San Jose blogs? Again, it looks like NO ONE.

Anonymous said...

Haha, it's a lot easier to rally people behind an existing team as opposed to a hypothetical one. Of course you'll find more Oaklanders who say "I love the Oakland A's" than San Joseans who say "I promise to love the San Jose A's if and when they exist."

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:41--not into facebook--but will be a season tix holder (4x) if they move to SJ--there is no correlation between facebook numbers and those that will buy season tix if they move--

What matters to MLB is the lack of a season tix fan base in Oakland, no progress on purchasing a site, no EIR...on and on and on--

Anonymous said...

OK anon @ 1:41,
You're right and all of those who live off-line are wrong...SEE YOU IN SAN JOSE!

Anonymous said...

"You're right and all of those who live off-line are wrong..."

I doubt both of you are wrong.

Anonymous said...

Jeffrey, that FB page you made is kinda messed up. There's no way to write on the wall, leave a comment, "like" something, share content, contact the creator of the page, start a discussion thread, nothing. All it has are links to Athletics Nation posts.

Anonymous said...

The Let's Go Oakland Facebook now has a whopping 1 billion members! Way to go guys! They're now asking every member to donate $1 to the Oakland effort central fund. The money raised will be used to 1) buy the A's from Lew Wolff and 2) privately finance a ballpark in West Oakland. Bill Neukom and Larry Baer are reportedly now members of this Oakland group. Keep up the good work y'all. We're showing San Jose who's really boss now.

Jeffrey said...

Hey Anon, I just did a test post on the page. I can create a forum topic and post to the wall. Not sure why you can't. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

Looks like Joe Abadilla has been trolling on the Lets Go Oakland FB page talking smack as usual. Now he's on the Baseball to San Jose FB page trying to gather support.

Kinda funny if you ask me...haha!

Lets go OAKLAND!!! Keep it up with over 9,600 members and counting.

Anonymous said...

I've always suspected the Oakland-only lunatics on here were all pre-pubescent teens. This Facebook nonsense certainly confirms that. This is the equivalent of a playground popularity contest. Really meaningful.

It's easy to get a bunch of semi-literate high school students from Oakland to click a link. A lot harder to get actual adults with capital to fund a stadium.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Jeffrey, it's good now, it was prolly just me and/or my computer wonking out for a minute. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

"I've always suspected the Oakland-only lunatics on here were all pre-pubescent teens. This Facebook nonsense certainly confirms that. This is the equivalent of a playground popularity contest. Really meaningful.

It's easy to get a bunch of semi-literate high school students from Oakland to click a link. A lot harder to get actual adults with capital to fund a stadium."

I know you are but what am I!

Ezra said...

Could we stop with the Anonymous posts about how big some facebook group is? If we cared, we could go look at their facebook page. Let's keep this relevant to the topic at hand, which is a possible site in West Oakland.

Anonymous said...

The facebook thing is kind of silly. SJ partisans have played this game before, so I rather doubt that they are going to get to excited about yet another "online" effort to woo MLB. For Oakland partisans on the other hand, they finally have something concrete on which to pin their hopes after months of rhetoric from the city pols. Frankly, I think their enthusiasm is misplaced. Although I'm glad to see the city put up a token of a fight, I don't see Wolfe or MLB changing course at this point.

ML, I have a question. Do you think this process is entering the "endgame" at this point?

Jeff

Anonymous said...

"Although I'm glad to see the city put up a token of a fight, I don't see Wolfe or MLB changing course at this point."

If MLB had already come down on the side of San Jose, then the blue ribbon panel would have come back long ago with that recommendation.

I love how you gush optimistic and wistful over anything remotely smelling like "evidence" in support of SJ, but put on a blindfold to *every* obvious advantage Oakland has going for it. San Jose does have the upper hand right now, but the way you phrase things is over the top nauseating. Oakland is putting up "token effort" while San Jose may be in the "endgame". Come on! I often feel embarrassed at how poorly you disguise your prejudices.

Jeffrey said...

Is that facebook group even really an effort of the City?

When I wrote on the wall asking about a plan someone form the group responded with "The final plan to keep the A's in Oakland will be implemented by the City of Oakland via official communications with Major League Baseball. Let's Go Oakland's plan is to demonstrate to the City and MLB that there is substantial and wide spread support to keep the A's in Oakland by building a new destination ball park in Oakland. We must do this by getting thousands of fans to sign our petition. Based on our understanding of MLB's process, we believe this approach can lead to a new destination ball park in Oakland. Go A's!"

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:22,

No need to feel embarrassed. I could really give a rip which city eventually ends up with the A's. To me the only difference is whether I head straight on down 580 or hook a left at 680 instead. If it were up to me to decide based on my personal preferences, I'd probably vote Oakland as the weather is cooler. If I were to decide on the merit of what's best for the A's, I'd probably vote SJ. But it's all moot as I don't have a vote either way.

If I seem somewhat negative towards Oakland, then you need look no further than its pols. They're about the sorriest lot of pols you'll find anywhere in the state. And that's really saying something, because this state is never without a shortage of idiots in public office.

Lets be brutally honest. If you were Wolfe, which group would you rather deal with? I actually have a soft spot for Oakland and respect what they've managed to do so far, but the money is in SJ. And if I've learned anything, when in doubt, it's generally best to follow the money.

Jeff

Anonymous said...

"Today's wealthy, it seems, are more likely to be caught in baseball hats and Birkenstocks than tux and tails. That's right-- San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, better known to the outside world as Silicon Valley, is the greediest city in America, with 1.57 members of the Forbes 400 per 100,000 residents."

http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/30/greediest-cities-billionaires-forbeslife-cx_ee_1203greed.html

daveinsm said...

money talks....bullshit walks

Navigator said...

It's obvious that the fans want the A's to build that ballpark in Oakland. Why not listen to your customers instead of alienating them?

A new ballpark on the Oakland waterfront would be a great success. It would be a great success in the same manner that the Fox Oakland Theater and Lake Chalet at Lake Merritt have been. If you build it in Oakland, they do come.

I know so many people who used to support the Oakland A's, who've been completely turned off by Lew Wolff's cold back of the hand dismissal of Oakland. These people would come back with a commitment to build that ballpark in Oakland.

The A's should be part of the fabric of the city of Oakland in the same manner as the Yankees, and Red Sox are intrinsically linked to their hometowns. Why shouldn't the Oakland A's enjoy the same relationship with a city as interesting and beautiful as Oakland. These two entities compliment each other. The passion for this team is right here in Oakland. Please don't throw the love, passion, history and legacy in Oakland away for mere speculation regarding possible corporate money in Silicon Valley.

A relocation to San Jose makes no sense and will certainly cripple this franchise for decades. Why throw away the center of the Bay Area along with the passion of Oakland fans? The Oakland A's need to make a commitment to invest in Oakland's bright future and watch those 12,000 signed petitions turn into season tickets.

Anonymous said...

I don't know what the San Jose pols have done that is so impressive, other than offer up some of the copius underdeveloped land in their rag tag downtown. Lucky them to have so little use for this land.

Oakland meanwhile, is kinda busy, using it's land to operate the 4th busiest harbor in the world, an International Airport that handles twice the traffic of SJ Intl., a sports facility hosting the three most popular pro leagues in the country, yards, HQ, and trackage of a rapid transit system that handles about 5 times the passengers that Caltrain and SJ light rail handle combined. It's HQ for the largest university system in the world, HQ for a park system that manages more acreage than the size of San Jose itself, has the first municipal wildlife refuge in America blocks from it's downtown which also serves as one the nation's most beautiful downtown park settings.

It's great that San Jose is making an effort to do something to upgrade it's minor league, suburban image. The dearth of major civic activity for a city so large is odd, and something needs to be done. I just think it's laughably short-sighted for the A's and MLB to abandon a significantly better locale at the center of one of America's largest, richest, and most active and diverse metro regions, just because they found some cheap land 45 miles away.

Alice B. Toklas said...

The Oakland A's need to make a commitment to invest in Oakland's bright future and watch those 12,000 signed petitions turn into season tickets.

This logic is backwards.
The people who signed those petitions need to make a commitment to invest in the A's bright future by buying pairs of season tickets before the end of this year, while possibilities are still open.

A jump of 24,000 season tickets will certainly get management's attention, and demonstrate the desirability of an Oakland location.

Anonymous said...

Poor Marty and Greg come here to vent their frustrations like broken records. Which of you is navigator? Judging by Greg's fantasy (knocking down the 980 freeway!) he is a solid candidate but Marty has an insane obsession with comparing everything to San Jose. It's a tossup.

Anonymous said...

anon @ 3:05,
UHHH...ok, what the hell was all that about?

navigator @ 4:03,
A thread isn't a thread without your "all A's fans" B.S.! Remember, "B.S. walks," so take a long one!

anon @ 4:08,
Perhaps the "best" damn post I've seen on this blog to date (sarcasm). You know, I could also make the case that Afghanistan is a better place to do business than (say) Singapore based on their multi-million dollar Opium trade and lack of humid weather. But to do so reeks of delusion and idiocy. Man oh man!

And to believe all this crap regarding Facebook numbers and an Oakland "Utopia" all because of a "mere rumor." Unbelievable!

Oh well..

Anonymous said...

Well, Singapore is a more populous and developed area than Afghanistan. So, in a way, Wolff is trying to sell us Afghanistan. The opium trade in this case is the internet. I know I could a solid weekend of fresh air to detox from it ;)

Anonymous said...

Real "funny" anon 6:31 (sarcasm at its finest!)...SEE YOU IN SAN JOSE!
(That's if you remain an A's fan after the move)

Anonymous said...

Uh, since when can Oaklanders call anything in San Jose "rag tag?" And image problems? Image is the whole reason we're even having this relocation debate. Busy port aside, Oakland needs to get its act together.

Vanya said...

its threads like these that show how the blog has completely fallen apart since its inception in 2005. sorry rhamesis, but this place is no longer a relevant source.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:31,
Wolff isn't trying to "sell" anything. He just wants what's best for his franchise and MLB as a whole. Wolff is simply following them money to San Jose.
He, along with MLB, doesn't give a rats ass about numbers on some Facebook page. Simply put, those numbers don't pay the bills.
"Money talks, bullshit walks"...DAMN STRAIGHT!

Marine Layer said...

Vanya - Thank you. Now I know I'm in good blogging company.

FC said...

Anon 4:08

I'm sure if any of that mattered, you would have corporations fighting to relocate to Oakland, but it doesn't.

I agree with Alice Tolkas, if the City of Oakland and its residents were that committed to keeping the A's, they need to show their commitment with their wallets, not with empty signatures. That's how you get the attention of the A's and MLB.

Anonymous said...

Well corporations are typically looking for inexpensive places to relocate to, now aren't they? So, I guess Wyoming and Mississippi are the best places in America.

Anonymous said...

FC,

Mr. Wolff has already announced he's leaving Oakland. First in a direct announcement about Fremont, and then unofficially by blasting Oakland officials just as the San Jose deal started coming together early this year. What sense is there, if you're a season ticket holder from Novato or Richmond or Concord, to renew? How can you justify lining his pockets on the way out the door? Oakland fans are in a little better shape geographically and can be expected to split on this.

The people who should universally be buying tickets now are those in San Jose. They're the winners and they should want to get on board for preferrential ticket sales at the new park, not to mention support the construction costs of the park.

If anything, the burden for ticket sales since Wolff announced his intention to move falls on the shoulders of South Bay A's fans.

The petition is intended to show MLB that there is support for Oakland, in some way other than buying tickets, since those tickets would only help Wolff finance a park somewhere else...

Anonymous said...

1:19, so poor attendance in Oakland falls on the shoulders of San Jose fans? That's some sweet logic.

Anonymous said...

It's like there's some cause and effect deficiency syndrome around here. Let's call it CEDS (tm)...

I'm only saying if you're happy the A's are coming down to a ballpark near you, you're already buying season tickets, right? You need to make sure you're actually able to get decent (or any?) seats in the new park. How many general admission seats do you expect will be available in a brand new 32,000 seat facility with like 800 Fortune 1000 companies piling on, plus preference to the existing 8,000 season ticket holders?

It's just nonsense to suggest people who want the team to stay, should buy season tickets to try and keep them in Oakland AFTER the owner has told them he's leaving.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 4:08 - You're absolutely right! Way to go! I mean, why would the A's want to move to San Jose, where they'd be smack dab in the middle of Cisco, Sun, Intel, Yahoo!, Adobe, Google, Apple, and HP, when they can stay in Oakland and be near Clorox and Cost Plus?! Obviously, Oakland is where it's at, baby!

Anonymous said...

Why so smug? We've been through all this before... None of those companies except HP is even in the top 50 of the latest Fortune 500. Meanwhile Oakland offers better proximity to plenty of genuine heavyweights like Chevron, Kaiser-Permanente, Bechtel, Wells Fargo, Safeway, McKesson, etc.

There is more than twice the personal wealth in the Bay Area above Fremont and Redwood City, than below it. Virtually all of the three most affluent counties in the Bay Area are inside a 25 mile radius of downtown Oakland. San Jose, on the other hand, is stuck with the 4th richest county eating up most of it's 25 mile radius.

FC said...

Anon 1:19

First off, the guy is willing to spend half a billion dollars on a ballpark, and you feel he's lining his pocket with money?

Second, correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds as though you're saying you'll only support the A's if they play ball in your city, or one close by. Sounds to me like you put convenience over loyalty. If your post represents the view point of others in the pro-Okaland group, then I think it speaks volumes as to why support for the ballclub in Oakland has been so poor.

We're season ticketholder living on the peninsula. Why is it okay for us to have to make the trek across the San Mateo bridge and pay a $4.00 toll, but it's impossible for you to make the drive down to San Jose, or even Fremont? We sell our extra tickets to buyers in San Jose, Monterey, Napa and the Central Valley. Heck we even sell tickets to Bleacher Dave who lives in Hollister. Not once in talking to my buyers have I heard someone complain about having to make the commute to the Coliseum. We make the commute because we love the game, and we love the A's.

I don't blame Oakland residents for being disappointed that the team is talking about leaving. But what you need to understand is that the move will put the team you and I love in a better position to compete not only with the Angels, Mariners and Rangers, but with the team across the bay.

Instead of signing petitions and opening Facebook accounts, show your support by attending a game. Buy a ticket not because the game is just down the block from where you live, but because the team you love is playing. It may be too late to stop the team from leaving, but I would hate to hear that you gave up being a fan because of a 45 minute drive.

Anonymous said...

You're really getting a kick out of nonsense/bull shit-laidened posts such as anon 1:09, AREN'T YOU MARINELAYER!
"Tijuana is a much better place to do business/set up a franchise than San Diego because..."
Can the crap get any deeper around here?

Marine Layer said...

I've mostly stayed out of the debate so that I could observe the sheer absurdity of it. Now it's time to close it.