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24 August 2009

BART to Warm Springs construction to begin

After securing a bid 45% lower than originally estimated, the tunnel portion of Warm Springs extension has been given the go-ahead by BART. The tunnel will extend southeast from the existing Fremont BART station, underneath man-made Lake Elizabeth, before turning south to occupy the former Western Pacific rail right-of-way. The only station to be built is Warm Springs, which will also be the future southern terminus until construction on the extension to San Jose/Silicon Valley begins. Another station in the Irvington district is currently unfunded. The complete estimated cost for the 5.4-mile extension is $890 million.

It's odd that one of the reasons for building the Warm Springs station at the planned location, NUMMI, will probably not be around for the opening in 2014. It's also likely that nothing will have replaced the auto plant by the time the station opens. Lew Wolff has rejected any idea of revisiting Fremont for the time being.

85 comments:

Paul said...

...Perhaps they should play the Talking Heads' "Road to Nowhere" as a tribute to the usefulness of this BART extension. NUMMI looks to be a goner and the NIMBYs killed the A's-to-Warm Springs idea. So who is going to use this extension? Can somebody fill me in?...

Marine Layer said...

It's not really for the Mission-area residents since they largely campaigned against the station location, so-called "criminal element" and all. There are tons of other light industrial jobs in the area, but nothing compares to NUMMI. It looks like it'll be a commuter station. At least it's one step closer to Santa Clara County.

Paul said...

...might this BART station become the equivalent of the CalTrain Atherton and College Park stations? So lightly used they were either shut down completely or used only a few times a week? An A's ballpark would have helped maximize use of this expensive new rail station. But of course, neighbors didn't want anything to do with the A's and the "light pollution" and traffic they would produce for 3 hours on 81 nights a year. Remember the NIMBY campaign: "Kids first - No Ballpark." I remember when baseball was supposed to be something good for kids. Now it's an unwanted land use, like a sewage treatment plant. At San Jose City College, neighbors recently were able to stop construction of a new baseball field for the college team - with lots of money already spent on it. Instead, it will be used for cricket and soccer. Huh?...

Marine Layer said...

I doubt it. The land there has too much potential for it to remain empty long term. There is pent up demand in Fremont for a second station, as evidenced by the lack of parking at Fremont BART on weekdays.

bartleby said...

A prediction: If the San Jose dream dies, Pac Commons springs back to life almost immediately. Whatever problems exist there are nothing compared with the obstacles, financial and otherwise, to building a new yard in Oakland or outside the Bay Area.

If tunneling is currently available for half-price, they should do whatever it takes to get the downtown SJ tunnel dug immediately. That alone would go a long ways toward making the whole project pencil out.

Warm Springs station will get some use from South Bay A's and Raiders fans, if no one else. Those of us who currently drive to Fremont will drive to WS instead. In the long run though, the WS station itself is less important than extending the line southward.

Anonymous said...

I raily think the A's should move to Sacramento. The A's have the lowest home attendance in the big leagues while Sacramento raily supports their team. The A's raily do have a low fan base in the bay area and would be much better served going to a growing area which they wouldn't have to share. They'd raily be much better off.

Paul said...

re: I raily think the A's should move to Sacramento.


...How about the Giants move there instead? If the A's leave, where will we go to see World Series Championship flags? I think Sacramento has been looked at and dismissed as a market for MLB.

In the early 1990s, when the A's were outdrawing the Giants at the Box Office, it was believed the Giants would leave the Bay Area. Perhaps they still can...

Anonymous said...

The A's won't move to Sacramento because the Rivercats play there. It's too much of a hassle to relocate a team to the same city as their triple A affiliate. Keep the A's in Oakland.

The low attendance numbers is not because the A's don't have fans in the Bay. It's a collection of many things. The worst ballpark in the league. One of the nicest ballparks was built across the Bay for the Giants. The new players that we constantly sign to one year deals and then trade away. The big name players that we only sign for one year deals and then trade away. And for the simple fact that our owner sucks ass big time and knows absolutely nothing about the game of baseball. The only thing he knows is how to "try" and make money and how to build hotels, not run a MLB franchise.

Lew Wolff did not buy the A's because he loves the game, but because he figured he could make money by building a "ballpark village."

Anonymous said...

Anon 920,
I "raily think you should do some research and read through ML's blog a few times before stating such ridiculous commentary.
Sac will be lucky if they can hold on to the kings.
MLB? PLEASE!

Jeffrey said...

Sacramento isn't a realistic place to put a ball team. There is a single Fortune 1000 Company in the market (McClatchy) and that is in a dying industry (Newspapers).

The median income of the local population is not the same as the Bay Area.

The Bay Area is 3 times as large as Sacramento.

In short, Sacramento is a lot like Kansas City. With less corporate support.

The A's should be playing in a new stadium in either Oakland or San Jose. Period.

Chris said...

+1 Paul

Anonymous said...

"Lew Wolff did not buy the A's because he loves the game, but because he figured he could make money by building a 'ballpark village.'"

Hahaha, you think one real estate venture is worth buying a major league franchise? Was Wolff going to uproot the A's from Fremont once he sold off all units just so he could build another ballpark village and make more money in this alleged manner? Wow, what a clever plan! I'm sure it would have worked: constantly build baseball stadia to sell some condos. Genius!

Anonymous said...

So anon 12:30, do you really believe that he's a baseball guy? That he knew a lot about the history of the A's before he decided to buy the team?? I seriously doubt it! Remember we're talking about a guy who had no idea who Rickey Henderson was. Yeah he's a real baseball genius!

Jeffrey said...

"Baseball guy" and understanding of the A's history are two different things.

I have grown up an A's fan, if I was well heeled enough someday and bought say, the Cleveland Indians. I wouldn't know much about the team though I love baseball.

I bet if you asked Lew Wolff something about Stan Musial, Bob Gibson, Harry Caray's days calling Cardinals games, etc. He would be able to talk in great detail about it.

But a better question for everyone here is, what does any of the back and forth bullshit about Lew Wolff, Oakland, San Jose or anything else have to do with Warm Springs BART?

Anonymous said...

Nothing around here has much to do with anything about reality, that's for sure. First off all we ever heard was that Fremont was a done deal and was the best thing since sliced bread, don't even bother questioning the logic. Now San Jose is the maifest destiny and if you don't buy into it, you're full of mularky. When that gets shot down, I'll be it's back to the Coliseum parking lot and if you didn't see that from the beginning, you're dumb as a wart.

I go on record as saying Wolff will never, ever get a ballpark built ... he'll eventually (within a year or so) sell off his share of the franchise and we'll never hear from the little man again.

Marine Layer said...

Having an anon "go on record" is like saying the birthers have a good argument.

Anonymous said...

Oh, sorry ... my name is Chris ... I guess now I'm official. Yeah!

Anonymous said...

Chris--whats "dumb as a wart" is to believe that any private investor will invest $500M of their money to build in the Coli parking lot--

"Reality" is the city of Oakland and county of Alameda can't afford the infratstructure improvements as well as a publically financed stadium-

Wolff may sell---but it won't change the reality of keeping the team in Oakland--they're there until a "new" there is found--and hopefully that "new" there is in nor cal--but it ain't ever gonna be Oakland without a huge public investment

Anonymous said...

Jeffery,

I don't care if you own the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Nationals and especially the A's for that matter. If you're even remotely knowledgeable about baseball, then you know who the heck Rickey Henderson is...especially if you own the frickin' A's!!

Anonymous said...

Notice nobody stays on topic. It's because nobody cares.

Paul said...

re: Having an anon "go on record" is like saying the birthers have a good argument.

...am I the only one here who has no idea what this means? What's a birther?

Marine Layer said...

A birther is an individual who despite the evidence, refuses to believe that President Obama is a natural-born citizen of the USA, and thus believes that his presidency is illegitimate. I'll stop there.

Anonymous said...

... or someone who despite all the evidence to the contrary believes that Wolff is ever going to secure the A's a new ballpark.

daveinsm said...

you can think if it as...conspiracy theories, x-files, santa claus and theeaster bunny....

Jeffrey said...

I love the nobody cares comment... then don't read it.

Marine Layer said...

8:11 - That made absolutely no sense. Thanks for trying.

Anonymous said...

ML--in an attempt to take this back to Bart--when you were on your walking tour was there any discussion about trying to do the tunneling in downtown SJ for Bart near term---I know that the funds are not necessarily there now--but with bids at 50% below what was expected and trying to avoid an on-going construction zone at some point in the future-

Marine Layer said...

No chance of SJ tunneling happening before the Milpitas/Berryessa sections of the extension are started. Besides there's no comparison. The tunneling portion in Fremont will be under undeveloped land. In SJ massive amounts of cut-and-cover will be required for the two stations, plus tunnel boring for rest of the tracks along Santa Clara St. There's no getting around how expensive it will be.

Anonymous said...

ok--diverting the subject but curious what ever happened to the Hammer/Mulchay (sp?) team focused on broadening business support for the A's move to SJ---other than being announced and having them support it at a council meeting via public comments I have never heard another thing? Is their work done---at least for now?

Revelations 4:20 said...

Whenever I see someone here use phrases like Anon 5:15, I wonder if they are referring to scriptural passages.

Marine Layer said...

You're not going to see the PR machine (including Mulcahy/Hammer) until we get closer to election time. They're getting numerous pieces in place in preparation.

Anonymous said...

Jeffrey the comment was meant in meaning nobody cares that much about the warm springs bart construction, everyone just goes off topic to what they want to talk about.

Sandra and Kenneth said...

NUMMI officially dead after March 2010 - announced today.

Paul said...

...What a nice spot for an A's ballpark that would be. Empty land right there; a new BART extension and excellent highway access. And NUMMI, one of the biggest whiners against previous stadium proposals, would be out of the way. I suppose, though, the NIMBYs will object to the NUMMI site, on grounds that a wayward seagull might pick up a hot dog wrapper from the stands and drop it on one of their lawns.

Remember: "Kids First - No Ballpark!"

(Have to wonder once again if the big-box retailers, who whined about A's fans using their parking lots, apparently oblivious that some of them might actually buy some merchandise from their stores, are pondering what their quarterly sales figures will be once the NUMMI employees are gone from the neighborhood. They should have plenty of empty space in their parking lots, now. Enough to hold roller hockey tournaments, I suppose.)

Anonymous said...

ML--whats your take on the lawsuit to review HSR thru Pacheco Pass and into SJ---one of many to come or is this something of significance?

Jeffrey said...

Wow. Bummer news about NUMMI.

Marine Layer said...

There will be other suits. Better to get this out of the way now instead of later. It needs to be made perfectly clear that this "writ of mandate" doesn't threaten the entire project. It focuses largely on the segment between Diridon Station and Gilroy, which is important because the ballpark is immediately south of the station. It's possible that some amount of land will be acquired for the HSR project because HSR may not be able to use the UPRR ROW. It could be as much as a 70' strip. The train could also run under the ballpark.

gojohn10 said...

Where there ridership estimates with regards to NUMMI employees? How much of a drop in projected ridership should BART expect?

gojohn10 said...

ugh, "were" not "where"

Georob said...

Shouldn't we have heard something by now from the "Blue Ribbon Panel" looking at Oakland and the East Bay?

Anonymous said...

We should know something by December.

Anonymous said...

Association of Bay Area Goverments released study today that Bay Area population will grow another 1.7 M people in next 25 yrs and will need another 635,000 housing units to meet demand - and most of that demand will be infill development, not " exurb" tracts as commute costs will be so high by then.
So land sites like Pac Commons and Nummi will be worth a lot because they are " Bay Centric " to the job engine that will continue to be Silicon Valley .

Marine Layer said...

No one would ever admit to it, but the postponed San Jose vote has allowed MLB to take its time. Expect something around Winter meeting time.

Anonymous said...

did the posponed SJ vote influence MLB or did MLB influence SJ to wait on its vote--and with that--whats the speculation relative to support of other MLB owners--

Anonymous said...

The postponement of the SJ vote only help Oakland that much more. We know MLB (including Commissioner Selig) has been meeting with Oakland Officials and so far so good from what I've been told from my source.

With SJ pushing their vote until next year, that allows Oakland to continue to make more progress with their plans. Seeing how the A's aren't even allowed to have any kind of discussions with a possible move to SJ, that just helps Oakland's cause that much more.

The A's will most likely remain in Oakland where they belong.

Marine Layer said...

11:46 - It's a chicken-and-egg situation.

12:20 - If what you're saying is true, then Selig in fact isn't trying to "Montrealize" the A's. What would the tinfoil hatters say?

Paul said...

I don't much care if it's Oakland or San Jose. One or the other is fine. What I think might be happening, though, is the committee is dotting all the "i's" and crossing all the "t's" for when it comes out with a recommendation that Oakland, Alameda County and Contra Costa County have nothing to offer. Then the league can move ahead with San Jose.

Oakland city officials can pitch different properties, but the problems still remain: lack of a significant corporate base and no public contribution available from Oakland. They can go to other places in Alameda and Contra Costa and have doors slammed in their faces just like in Fremont.

"Would you be willing to have a ballpark in (name small city here)?"

Response "No way, jack."

San Jose is sitting there ready and waiting.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:20--at the end of the day MLB/Selig could say A's stay in Oakland--but it doesn't mean that LW will invest $500M in a private ballpark--or for that matter--that anyone else would be crazy enough to do that-

With a $20M annual rent payment already in play, a football team that wants a new publically financed stadium and sites that require significant investment by the city to acquire the land and move existing facilities---better hope for lots of stimulus funding---because if its Oaktown it only means status quo for the next 10 years before a new ownership group tries to move them....and of course that is 10 years of subsidized baseball at $35M/year---thank you very much other MLB owners--

So explain again why they would pick status quo in Oakland?

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:20--pushing back the vote for SJ is also beneficial to their efforts--Mayor Reed wants a November 2010 initiative--by this time the economy should be in better shape, raid on the redevelopment agency funds over, designs for how HSR, Bart and a proposed ballpark mesh will be more clear, and the opportunity to manage public concerns via the neighborhood meetings that are currently underway. Remember you don't just acquire land,develop concepts, complete EIR's, find money for infrastrucutre improvements, gain support of local neighborhood groups etc overnight. SJ has been acquiring land since 2005,has completed one EIR with the revision expected in the next 60 days, neighborhood groups are already developed and working on potential concerns--identifying a potential site is the easy part---buying the property and completing the EIR is when things start getting tough--expecially when a city as poor as Oakland is expected to come up with the money to buy the land--

and thats before you even get to how to build the ballpark---a one year delay in the vote in SJ has no bearing either way--and no matter how much time Oakland has---it ain't gonna pencil out unless there is a charitable individual or organization willing to pick up the tab-

Anonymous said...

Anon1220,
Can you prove that Selig has been talking to Oakland pols? News links, facts, etc.?
Or are you just talking out of your rear!? Probably.
Definitely won't hear from MLB until after the season/World Series.

Anonymous said...

almost all talk about san jose comes out of peoples rears

Anonymous said...

BTW, you still have a link to the Baseball San Jose blog even though there's been nothing posted there for almost three months.

You pulled the link to Linusalf's blog after way less time than that.

Marine Layer said...

linusalf stopped trying. BSJ blog is waiting for the next move.

Anonymous said...

Like I've been saying many times before on this blog. Yes I have a very reliable source who has been meeting with Lew Wolff, MLB's committee and Bud Selig. You guys can all continue to speculate whatever will make all you pro-San Jose people feel better, but I will continue to listen to my source.

I've also said before that my source had a meeting with Bud Selig a couple of weeks ago including the stadium committee and it went very well. I'm not saying anything is a done deal by all means, but don't even think about counting Oakland out of the picture! Besides, my source was also was invited to the All-Star game not only by the Blue Ribbon Committee, but also by Lew Wolff who he did end up attending the festivities with. They even flew to St. Louis together on the A's corporate jet. If what you all say was true and Lew Wolff really didn't care about Oakland that much and knew it was never going to remain a possibility, then why is he trying to keep such good working relationships with Oakland City Officials by inviting them to the All Star game?? I'll tell you why...because he probably realizes how difficult a move to San Jose is becoming and he's starting to really like what he see's out of the "new" Oakland Officials.

So you all can keep trying to bash the city of Oakland as much as you'd like and I'll continue to get information from my source. No offense to ML, you do a very nice job on this blog with a lot of helpful and useful information, but we all know that you get most of your information these days from articles you may come across and maybe a couple of interviews you had in the past. I'm also the one who said that we should know something by December according to my source, which was then followed by ML indicating for us to expect something by the Winter meetings. I think ML even knows that I obviously do seem to know something that most of you if not all of you know very little about.

When will most of you start excepting the truth that San Jose is far from being the front runner to land the A's. Again, they aren't even allowed to discuss any possibilities with allowing a possible move by the A's due to the territorial rights held by the Giants. And we all know how much they aren't going to give those up without a long hard battle if needed.

Tony D. said...

If this doesn't influence MLB's decision regarding the A's future, I don't know what will:

Today's Mercury News, "S.J. to add 400,000 people by 2035." Also 339,000 new jobs added. As the Merc puts it, "That's almost like all Oaklanders moving to San Jose over 25 years."

To that I say "No thanks, just the A's...and possibly Warriors and Raiders."

Anonymous said...

Linusalf stopped trying because he/she realized that no on gave a crap about their blog. Not only has it not been updated since June, but since December 2008 there's been less than 20 comments. Obviously no one other than the San Jose partisans who follow this blog regularly really care that much. I bet the few comments that were even left since December are the same very few people posting over and over again.

Nice try San Jose!!

Marine Layer said...

10:30 - No offense taken. I don't actively seek out interviews. The Wolff interview came via a mutual friend's suggestion. I don't try to scoop the regular media, getting the details right is what matters. I'm extremely thankful I don't have to worry about deadlines or editors.

Re: Oakland officials, I'm trying to wrap my mind around how Lew's view of the City could take such a 180 in only a few months, especially given the Dellums administration's (in)competence. It's for that reason that I'm a bit skeptical. I'm sure they're talking a very good game, but it really will take a lot more than "here are some sites and dev opportunities, have at it."

Anonymous said...

Anon 1030. I would like to see an A's stadium in Oakland, but I'm just wondering, who is your source. Could you give an exact name. Thanks.

Marine Layer said...

No one should feel compelled to name sources. We're not talking WMD's here.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:30--ironic that after the All-Star game in St. Louis LW gave an interview to a local St. Louis columinst and among other things stated in the interview is his desire to build a new ballpark in ....downtown SJ....second....why wait until December for Oakland to announce they have a great new plan for a downtown ballpark...it won't require other owners to vote...this date is insignificant to Oaklands efforts---but significant to moving the team to SJ where there would be potentially a nod from MLB to begin the negotiations-

Last thing that MLB and LW want to be accused of by Oakland is that they weren't willing to listen--but talk is cheap--its all about delivering--and Oakland can't do it--you know that---we all know that--time to move on

Anonymous said...

anon 1030,

Shaking head very, very slowly.

You're even calling out ML, who's actually had (and probably still has) the ear of Lew Wolff?!

Oh well, it's your world, so live in it as you please.

Kyu said...

Anon 1:28,

Please show me the article where it specifically indicates that Lew Wolff "publicly" came out and said at the All Star game that he wishes to build in San Jose very well knowing that is against MLB policy. I know the article you mention. I've read it and it only speculates an opinion of the writer. Lew Wolff was NEVER QUOTED in St. Louis that he wishes to build in San Jose. The article clears says that he thought "downtown looked great" for their (St. Louis) new ballpark village. The writer Tim Bryant is the one who says that Lew Wolff plans to build a stadium in downtown San Jose. He's just indicating what the rest of the baseball world thinks.

In my honest opinion, the only people who really knows anything is the people having discussions in the meetings. The people discussing anything with the Committee, Bud Selig and Lew Wolff. Not writers from St. Louis.

I think I'm gonna have to listen to anon 10:30 on this even if he doesn't want to list his source. He seems to know a little bit more "inside" info than the everyday bloggers posting on this site...no offense ML. Everyone else on here can obviously only speculate and voice their opinions. This guy seems to really know someone, so in a sense he might actually be able to be somewhat of a fly on the wall in these meetings.

Maybe he's right and Oakland really does still have a great chance?! Lots of great things seemd to be happening in Oakland the last several months. The new restaurant at Lake Merritt wich just opened up...the Uptown District's new bars and restaurants...and even this weekends' Eat Real Festival (http://eatrealfest.com/) was lots of fun today and totally packed with people from all over the place. It will still be going on all day tomorrow as well if any of you want to check it out.

Anonymous said...

Sorry 12:12, but I'm not about to name my source on an A's ballpark blog. I'm not a retard and I've got more class than that.

Plus just for the record, my source has not said one bad thing about San Jose or SCC. Basically I've only been informed with progress Oakland has been making with their plans and the responses being received from the meetings, Lew Wolff and Bud Selig.

linusalf said...

Ok hold up...my names being dragged through the mud quite a bit here

I never "stopped trying" come on dude. I have been very active in several other ways besides being blogger. Due to several factors I don't really have time to be a full time blogger, but don't say I "stopped trying" I have been very active in gathering information and keeping people informed about all issues regarding how Lew Wolff conducts his business, financing of stadiums, the earthquakes, the a's, budget deficits in Oakland AND San Jose and how they might affect how the A's stadium will be paid for. Recently me, and some other well informed long time Oakland A's fans have been working together very diligently to put together a new website to promote Oakland A's baseball history and lore, but also news relative to a's stadium and business issues. My blog will be a part of this, but with multiple contributors as well. Say what you want about me, call me a partisan or whatever, but don't say i've stopped trying.

Marine Layer said...

You stopped trying on your blog, Linusalf. Your audience would be best served by either updating the blog to reflect all of your work or by deleting the blog altogether. You owe your readers at least that much.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:28---since you requested it---so help me out in which part you don't understand....St. Louis Post Dispatch---7/15---In my book--"Wolff said..." is a quote- note it wasn't Wolff has said....

"Wolff said he wasn’t up to speed on Ballpark Village but noted he had considered a similar but smaller development as part of a plan to move the A’s to Fremont, Calif. (That plan fell through but Wolff is concentrating now on moving the team to San Jose; fans in Oakland aren’t happy.)

The days of using profits from condo sales to pay for the rest of a mixed-use development are over for the next two to five years, Wolff said. Projects like Ballpark Village “are very difficult to implement these days,” he added.

Wolff said he plans to build an A’s stadium in downtown San Jose without a public subsidy.

“The more cookies you take out of the public jar, the sicker you get if you eat them all,” he said."

Anonymous said...

Kyo,

You're credibility vanished in just two paragraphs! You claim (rightly) that the only people that know what's going on are the ones on the committee, MLB and Lew Wolff. But then you go on to say that you'll believe what ANON OAKLAND FLY ON THE WALL has to say about the A's future. COME AGAIN!?

By the way, a recent Mercury News interview with Lew Wolff (regarding the Earthquakes) stated that he reiterated (meaning "stated again") his desire to move the A's to San Jose.

So let's see: Believe Lew Wolff or ANON OAKLAND FLY ON THE WALL? The proverbial no-brainer! Oh, I'm sorry, the Merc reporter was only stating his opinion because that's what everyone else thinks...WHATEVER!

Again, it's your guys' world, so live in it as you please.

Kyu said...

I still don't see it and he wasn't quoted saying that at all. It's what Tim Bryant is trying to indicate. He clearly quoted him on two other occasions throughout the article, but not anywhere does LEW WOLFF HIMSELF say that he wants to build in San Jose.

If at the current time he truly wanted to build in San Jose, then why didn't he ask any San Jose Officials to the All Star game?? I mean we all know what he has said in the past about his desire to move out of Oakland, but that was before the stadium committee was even formed to rule out Oakland all together.

It seems uncle Lew is starting to realize that Oakland can come up with something great that he did miss before and that trying for San Jose is just too much hassle (especially if the committee concluded that Oakland is still very much a viable option for a brand new ballpark) at this point. He knows that he's looked very poorly in the eyes of not only Oakland residents, but the East Bay community as well for his desire to leave where they've been for over 40 years. He obviously wants to show some sort of good faith to the City of Oakland by keeping a good working relationship so that when the stadium committee concludes that the A's should remain in Oakland, they'll be ready get the things rolling immediately.

Anonymous said...

"I'm not a retard and I've got more class than that."
Are you sure about that anon oakland fly on the wall? Are you not reading what you're typing on this blog?
KYU, you are really, really reaching (in desperation) trying to explain English grammar and when a quote isn't a quote, bla bla bla.
Get this through your thick skull (if possible): a writer from St. Louis has no reason to make shit up regarding Wolff's intentions or the A's future.
In closing, do you believe it when Wolff tells the Mercury News he still plans on relocating the A's to San Jose?
Or are you going to believe anon oakland fly on the wall who knows a guy who knows a guy?

Jeffrey said...

So, it would be cool if some real new came out.

I am skeptical of the Oakland "plans" for the simple fact that there haven't been any announced, and those hinted at are pretty improbable. Jack London Square is nice and has been improved a great deal recently. But the cost to make that place accessible and prepared for a ballpark are astronomical... If people think a multi use parking garage is a big hurdle because to requires public money, wait until they see the bill Oakland would be asked to pay for infrastructure in JLS.

I thought Larry Jackson's plan he outlined on this blog was decent. I'd like to see more about it. I would think that if you were looking strictly from a business perspective the former Homebase site is the elast desirable if you considered JLS, San Jose and staying put across the parking lot.

At tis point, we only know what San Jose has to offer. And after going to Fenway Park, I have to say I like the potential in the San Jose site. I'd like to see what Oakland's alternatives are so I could make a reasoned opinion... maybe JLS is possible, None of us, anonymous sources or not, seem to be able to articulate what Oakland's plan is in order for anyone to make a reasonable assesment of the plan.

Anonymous said...

Well put jeffrey.

FC said...

+1 Jeffrey

Jeffrey said...

I just reread this post. Sorry for the typos and such. What a depressing game yesterday... ugh. We need some positive news on the stadium front cause it sure ain't gonna come on the field for a while.

Anonymous said...

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm gonna believe anon oakland fly on the wall who knows a guy for now. He seems to know more than anyone else who's just on here blogging and commenting.

Anonymous said...

I would like to see any recent article quoting Lew Wolff clearly stating that he wants to move to San Jose. Please post any articles you all claim Lew Wolff has been quoted saying AFTER the stadium committee was formed.

And yes, I will continue to believe the fly on the wall. It seems what he has been claiming is that his source is the one who's been part of the meetings and has met on several occasions with Lew Wolff and Bud Selig. So he is our fly on the wall, more than I can say for any of you bloggers.

Anonymous said...

You don't need to apologize for typos. People use typos as a last resort to try and attack others opinions. I agree some positive news would nice, it's just a waiting game I suppose.

Marine Layer said...

This back-and-forth about the veracity of claims is silly. Let it rest.

As far as Lew goes, it's flat out denial if you don't believe his designs are on San Jose just because there's no direct quote. That's part of the PR game.

Anonymous said...

Personally I find it refreshing that the Oakland crowd has moved from LW being the lowest form of life to the great savior...just how long this romance will this romance last....

Anonymous said...

ML,
Even if there was a direct quote from Lew Wolff, the Oakland Delusionals would state whoever reported it "made it up," or based it on what everyone else was saying, yada yada yada.

The Sunday Mercury News had a nice tidbit on Santa Clara County Assessor Larry Stone and his outstanding letter to Barbara Boxer. Pretty similar to what A's part/owner Guy Saperstein wrote to Sen. Boxer. Seems that (rightfully) Dianne Feinstein is staying neutral on this one and a lot of Silicon Valley big wigs are pushing for the A's to San Jose.

Lastly, how anyone could think that this Oakland supporter with an inside "source" is credible and knows more than anyone else on this blog (more than Marinelayer?) is beyond me!

Gee, believe Lew Wolff, Guy Saperstein, Larry Stone or Marinelayer...or believe this Oakland insider with a "source?" OK ML, I'll rest.

Anonymous said...

Too funny. "I'm going to believe this Oakland dude because he shares my delusions." OK! That's a great basis for forming your opinions.

Anyway, it would be great if Oakland comes up with a good proposal. But anything around the Coliseum won't be it. JLS would be cool as would anything downtown. I'd be seriously jazzed by that. Anything else is pointless.

dmontero said...

In a desperate attempt to get this conversation back on track, let me make a few statements and then point out what I see as the elephant in the room. (Sorry Stomper, different elephant.) First: as an East Bay resident, I would love nothing more than for the A's to stay in Oakland, even if it meant building a new stadium next to the Coliseum. I think the political situation in Oakland renders this highly unlikely, however. Second: From a geographic and economic perspective, it makes SO much sense to have the A's in San Jose. It's the third most populous city in California and the economic center of Northern California AND it's moves the A's further away from the Giants. The territorial rights issue it completely idiotic but still very real, and it doesn't sound like BART is going to San Jose any time soon (latest guess is 2025.) Third, Fremont makes SOME sense, since it's as close to San Jose as you can get without leaving Alameda County, plus it's exactly halfway between Oakland and San Jose. The Pacific Commons plan, however, was absolutely inexcusably stupid, on the wrong side of 880 with no real public transit option. Warm Springs made more sense but the neighbors didn't want it, which I can understand. But now we have the news that NUMMI is closing. So here you have a large industrial site in Fremont, surrounded by a sea of employee parking, zoned for industrial use, and with a BART station partially meant to service it under construction. Does anyone else think this might just be the best place to site a new stadium, assuming the site can be cleaned up?

Adam Smith said...

dmontero:
Good points, mostly, with one big exception -- San Jose is not the economic center of Northern Califiornia. That title still resides in San Francisco.

Compare the two cities' skylines, airports, convention centers, financial institutions, tourist activity, medical research and treatment facilities, arts activity (yes, that too is an economic enngine), public transportation infrastructure, etc.

Anonymous said...

This "source" that claims the Oakland and MLB are talking is funny or tragic, depending on your point of view.

An Oakland proposal could very well be true, but only as a "straw man" that Wolff and Selig will hold up as the "alternative" that will be quickly shot down.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that is what's happening- some people are complaining that the A's haven't even considered Oakland. Well, these chumps in Oakland will provide some ridiculously inadequate plan that will be held up by MLB as the only option for staying in Oakland. And that will completely discredit any remaining opposition to moving the A's.

Jeffrey said...

Just wondering (not being facetious), what does a skyline have to do with being an economic engine?

Anonymous said...

"San Jose is not the economic center of Northern Califiornia. That title still resides in San Francisco.

Compare the two cities' skylines, airports, convention centers, financial institutions, tourist activity, medical research and treatment facilities, arts activity (yes, that too is an economic enngine), public transportation infrastructure, etc."

How do those apply to economics? People in the valley have tons of disposable income and they go to games more than tourists do. Companies buy suites; art galleries do not.

Besides, San Francisco already has a team. This is about Oakland and San Jose. Despite the OAFC desperate piggybacking on San Francisco's glory, the two cities are not intertwined. In fact, it is the San Francisco Giants trying to bleed the A's out of the area and the San Francisco Chronicle writing daily on crime in Oakland.