05 February 2009

Warm Springs turns out in protest

The Argus' Matthew Artz has the details and the pictures of the 500-strong meeting and protest at Weibel Elementary in Fremont tonight. What was originally intended to be a small meeting of only 25 residents ended up becoming a big Q&A in the school's cafeteria. If you attended, please post your takes of the session.


Calvin said...

I was there. And I would say the protesters were more than 500 ADULTs. Police says 700 I think that is more accurate.

When I knew A's is coming to WS, I was upset. After attend this non-sense meeting, now I am furious.

Basically, Keith did not answer any question at all. When being asked lots of questions he has no solution, his answer is always "we will have EIR report".

Like traffic is going to jam the neighborhood, his answer is EIR report. I have no idea how's EIR report helps to reduce the traffic?
Does he meant that before the ball game, he will put the EIR report at the intersection and the traffic will disappear?

This meeting is a total failure, and I do think A's treats the neighborhood like idiot.

Let's wait and see how many people will attend their next meeting in Weibel.

FC said...

I just don't get it. Why are the A's wasting everyone's time pursuing WS. No one wants them there, maybe with the exception of Wasserman.

Selig gave you guys a hall pass to San Jose, use it!

Anonymous said...

Please Find a better Location!!!!!

Wow! It is now clear that the neighbors have only started to fight. I wish the A's would put the stadium in a Fremont location with first rate access and buffers.

I haven't found a site yet in town that is like the new 49ERS site. Lots of lanes on the GA Prkwy and the freeways are right there.

San Jose might work but Good luck working with the people in San Jose Govt. who are firing people everyday. San Jose' major disadvantage is that the voters of San Jose turned down a ballpark by a large margin.

That vote was shortly after the voters of The City of Santa Clara passed a measure in support of a ballpark in Santa Clara. At the same time a County funding Measure barely failed.


DC said...

Wow, hard to believe all this is happening at my old elementary school.

Anyways, my take on this as an A's fan and former resident in the adjacent suburbs is a reluctant "ehhh" to the whole Warm Springs idea. What I looked most forward of all in the original Pacific Commons location was the creation of some sort of downtown Fremont lacks, along with the A's being practically in my hometown (selfish, I know). Without that, my optimism sort of fades, because I seriously think the A's deserve better: a "baseball village" or whatever you call it, a bigger market, more fans, more revenue, and not living in the shadow of the Giants. If they can't achieve this in Warm Springs, then I'd prefer them going to San Jose for the benefit of the franchise itself.

I can't really blame the residents for protesting. A lot of them are like my parents, who moved to these suburbs to go to a good school system and be in a quiet neighborhood. I think imposing a stadium without the approval of the people who will be most directly impacted on a daily basis is unfair.

In the end, I'd prefer them to aim for Pacific Commons again, and if that's not viable, make San Jose the number one priority.

Anonymous said...

what a cluster f&%k!!!

I was there too and it's amazing how little the wolff's ever really say. they are not very trustworthy.

and for those who say SJ is an option, come on. MLB has not given them permission to go there and will never do so. Besides, the wolffs are out to screw over everyone so I doubt SJ would be any more receptive than Fremont is.

Jeffrey said...

Safe to say Warm Springs is out.

Makes the coming speech by Lew (when is it, next week?) all the more interesting.

Anonymous said...

It is clear that the A's are snowing over the residents.

For Pacific Commons, a stadium designed next to complementary commercial establishments, the level of details prepared for Pacific Commons is voluminous. There is even traffic mitigation and supplemental traffic mitigation reports (the last one is dated November 2008).

In contrast, with a stadium going next to a residential neighborhood and little available open space and worse traffic concerns, nothing has been done and nothing appears to be forthcoming.

As others have mentioned, Wolfe's comments were always "the EIR will address that."

Clearly, the A's went through the efforts to address issues when facing corporations on the other side of the table, but they are refusing to deal fairly when your average joes sit across from them.

We will be limited to 45 days to analyze, review and submit objections to the draft EIR when it comes out. Not much time when you have a regular job and this is on the side.

Anonymous said...

Clearly the Wolff's Divide and Conquer the Community Strategy is a complete Public Outreach Disaster. Keith Wolff is a complete stooge, who would be selling used cars if he were not Daddy Wolff's little rich kid.

I was amazed how many showed up to protest on cold February night. The community is only starting to put the heat on.

If the Wolff's continue to ignore the community and pursue a stadium 400 yards from homes and 1/2 mile from an Elementary school, they will get World War III.

Anonymous said...

Before we put the last nail in the Fremont coffin recognize that in the last election about 70,000 people voted in Fremont. These voters re-elected 2 candidates that are pro-ballpark--the mayor and a council member- rejecting 2 other candidates that were anti-ballpark.

I recognize that this was before WS was put on the table---but 500 or 700 or 2000 WS NIMBY's may not reflect the sentiment of all of the voters that represent the city of Fremont.

If Wolff wants to move forward in Fremont they need to weather meetings like this while completing the EIR---they should also agree to take a vote so the voice of Fremont could be heard---not just the voice of those who chose to rant and scream the loudest-

If the city of Fremont confirms that they want the ballpark via a vote, and the EIR is certified, than the stadium moves forward--

Wolff has got a bit of time on his hands to work through this process waiting for a bit of economic recovery.

My sense is he won't kill Fremont until he is absolutely convinced the majority of the voters in Fremont do not support the ballpark-

Anonymous said...

It's too bad Calvin doesn't know what an EIR is. If everyone at the meeting was as clueless as you, perhaps Lew had good reason to treat you like "idiot."

Anyway, Warm Springs isn't a good place for the stadium regardless of traffic. If PC can't happen and become the singular downtown Fremont has never had, then forget about it. It's perfectly fine for it to stay a sleepy bedroom community. That's obviously how a large portion of the residents want it to remain. There's nothing wrong with that.

MLB did open the gates to SJ and that's most likely their next stop. Anon 8:22 should really keep up on current events.

kevin said...

This is all playing into San Jose's hands. Lew probably knew this would happen, and on the heels of baseball changing it's stance on the Giant territorial rights. All the work on the original site, and then a change at the last minute? Seems more like the A's have figured a way to bail on Fremont and go where they wanted to go all along. Take it from someone who grew up a SAN JOSE A's fan. The territorial rights were a gift to Giants fans so your precious Pac ATT Barroid Lincecum stadium could be built in Mountain view, not SF. Considering all the work SJ has done(EIR, aquired land, Infrestructor in place) not to mention the proximity to downtown, and lack of Single dwelling neighborhoods with residents to complain. Besides the Tank is already there. Every form of transportion there or planned for the future, except boat(perhaps Guadalupe in winter?). Added traffic is probably alot easier to overcome than traffic that never existed. The south bay economy will probably recover ahead of the curve, and San Jose will be ready to swoop in. I'll bet the A's announce it in the next 6 mounths.
San Jose

Anonymous said...

As support to the conspiracy theories about San Jose, the A's "Consulant" who was at WS last night is Jim Cuneen, a former assemblyman and former CEO of San Jose Chamber of Commerce. He is very close with all politicos in San Jose including Pat Dando, the current Chamber head. Dando is doing all of the heavy lifting behind the scenes right now in preparation for the A's to make San Jose there renewed focus...Just ask her!...You don't have to believe me on this right now, but the near future will bear me out on this.

FC said...

Anon 8:22,

I guess you didn't get the memo about Selig's letter to the A's.


I hope you are correct in your assessment. Like Tony, I have held out hope that the A's in SJ would someday become a reality. If this is all part of Wolff's plan, they are sure wasting a lot of time and money with Fremont. One thing for sure, if or when Wolff starts pursuing SJ, it will then become an all or nothing deal. Because should SJ fail, I'm afraid the next option for the A's would be relocation.

Anonymous said...


I agree that alot is going on to make SJ the next viable option--but counter to the conspiracy theory Wolff did work in good faith with Fremont at PC--spending quite a bit of money and time to make it happen-

WS was thrown on the table by Fremont when PC started to fall apart--I doubt that the Fremont pols understood the level of resistance that they would encounter.

With the failure to reach agreement at PC, I agree that now in the near term SJ will become the front runner, just as Fremont was for the past several years---

Being the front runner and actually putting a shovel in the ground are two different things--now SJ has to deliver---and I am not sure they can---Baseball SJ failed to deliver any significant business support for the A's last time---tech companies like HP, Apple etc could care less about MLB in SJ-a group of downtown business owners isn't going to create the necessary support--bottom line---

Dando has her work cut out for her-and I sure hope that there is a viable plan of attack to put together a deal that works for the city and the A's---and not just "we want baseball in SJ" with her holding up a sign at Spring Training like Gonzales and Stone did a few years back---talk about embarassment!

kevin said...

I did not. I still believe basebll will give thier blessing, or I agree 100% that they are GONE! I just don't see where MLB would want them out of the bay area. Portland, Vegas? I just don't see it. Fremont was real, up to the point when Lew's "Santa Row 2" idea went up in smoke with the economy. In San Jose Lew has enough Pals in place that he'll make his money with or without a Mall City. I think Warm Springs is the same as the North of 66th plan. Hastely put together to fail, but don't say "we didn't try". Selig is a joke, and rubbing enough money on anything will make it go away(territorial rights). The only reason I wouldnt believe it is because of how obvious it all seems.
Just off topic. I wonder why the Mountain View, Moffet Field option is never discussed.

Dan said...

I think it's very apparent after last night that WS is a disaster in the making for the A's financially, PR wise and legally. And they thought they had problems at Pac Commons. Time to give the Fremont pipe dream up and head to SJ.

Tony D. said...

Nice post anon 10:11

Walter 2:22

You're right, SJ voters did turn down a ballpark...WWAAAAAAY back in 1992! I was still a drunken sailor back then. And the proposed utility tax hike to build a stadium for the Giants lost by only 4-5 percentage points; not really that large of a margin as you suggested.

Any ballpark for SJ, assuming Fremont falls through, would be privately financed, so no voter approval would be needed this time around.

I don't think it's necessarily "conspiracy" to think that Wolff (as others have suggested) is keeping it cool with Fremont in order to still develop PC; and perhaps even WS. That's just plain ole opinion in my view.

anon 8:22

Since you didn't get the memo on Selig's letter: Keith Wolff himself stated that if Fremont falls through, San Jose is potentially another location...would he have said that if the Giants territorial rights were still an issue? I think not.

FC, keeping my fingers crossed.

Lastly, R.M., you stated a few weeks back you'd provide an overview (illustration?) of how a ballpark, retail, and parking would fit at Diridon South's 13 acres. What's the status on that? (can't wait)

Kyu said...

San Jose and Fremont both will NOT happen. Selig never gave the A's a pass to move to San Jose. He said they can "discuss a ballpark with other communities." Where in that comment do any of you get San Jose??? If he meant San Jose, don't you think he would've said San Jose?? All the Fremont sites suck, and if Selig would allow the A's to move to San Francisco territory, then he would have said, "discuss a ballpark with Santa Clara County."

He's just trying to give his boyfriend Lew Wolff an ultimatum to get something going so that every team will get a new stadium before his term is up. That's the only thing Selig cares about.

It looks like the A's will have to continue to play at the Coliseum for awhile now and most likely will end up staying in Oakland.

I say in due time when Wolff knows he has no other options, he'll go back into discussions with the City of Oakland and find a location near the port or Jack London Square.

Marine Layer said...

Repeating for emphasis:

However, that brings me back to a question I posed last week to a commenter who believed the A's would get something built in Oakland. If both Wolff and Selig are hellbent on fleeing Oakland, why do you think there's a realistic shot of the A's building a new park there? It's not going to be any cheaper or less difficult politically to build there. (BTW I never got a reply from that commenter.)

Still waiting for that reply.

Kyu said...

I believe so not because he wants to stay in Oakland, but because he is running out of options.

If you have no where else to're only other option is to either just stay where you are and suck it up, or move out of the Bay Area completely (which will not happen because...again, no other place to go right now).

I'm not saying that it's going to be easier and cheaper, but to me and I'm sure many others it just seems like the most realistic option for awhile now?

I understand that your blog is about a "new" ballpark for our team, but why is them staying in Oakland so hard for you to except with everything that is going on? Is this because you're also a San Jose native and dislike the idea of the A's staying where they've been all these years??

I'm not trying to bring any confrontations to this thread because from what I've read in the past, people can be very emotional about their city and where they would like the A's to play. I would just like to know what you're thoughts are on them staying in Oakland and being from San Jose?

Marine Layer said...

I don't have a problem with the A's staying in the Coliseum indefinitely. My being in San Jose has no effect on how much of a fan I am or where I want them to play. I'll go see them anywhere in the Bay Area 30-40 times a season.

Unfortunately, you and I don't determine the A's fate. Wolff and Selig do. Neither of them want the A's to be on the revenue sharing teat any longer than they have to. As long as they stay in the Coliseum that will be the case. That leaves them looking for a ballpark elsewhere. And despite whatever ails our economy, they will be looking for the best deal, wherever that is. That may include Oakland. It may not. It may mean San Jose. It may not. At this point, no door can be closed, but there's certainly a door that's cracked open: San Jose.

Anonymous said...

I was there too. A's people are not talking straight at all.

Pacific common option is pretty much dead, and A's owner admits the chance there is very low, you can find out on the web on his own words.

Why is he still telling us that Pacific common is still under consieration when A's will file an application to move the site to Warm Springs this month?

It is a waste of time asking them any questions. All they do is just spinning around and try to disarm residents.

As long as the stadium is built in our backyard, our home value, our safety, our life quality will all go down the drain.

Kyu said...

ok ML...nicely put.

Thanks and keep up the good work on the updates!

Tony D. said...


Go back to my 10:50 post and repeat 20 times to yourself what Keith Wolff stated regarding San Jose.

Lew Wolff was also quoted recently ( as saying that a door that had been closed for the A's (Santa Clara County) was now open.

What more do you need?

You're obviously new to this blog and aren't quite up to date on the news of the day...welcome!

Kyu said...

actually i did read your post and i have been following the blog for quite some time now.

i even have read all about keith wolff and his supposedly back up plan if the fremont plan fails...which pretty much means nothing to me.

whatever you feel you might have read, it has NEVER been said that the a's have been granted rights to talk to san jose about anything. keith and lew wolff might want to push for san jose...but that does not mean it has been granted.

please send me and all the readers the article or link that you saw which was quoted by selig, mlb or even the giants that san jose is OK to be looked at by the a's. i would really like to see it for myself rather than hearing a lot of he says she says, or what the wolffs would "ideally" like to happen.

the bottom line in my opinion is that they still don't have any clear cut options to make a move anywhere right now.

Kyu said...

here's what i've seen as of today in an article...

"On Tuesday, Wolff would not address the territorial rights issue directly, though he would also not rule out the possibility of San Jose as a fallback. "If we're not able to work it out in Fremont, what the letter says is we can look at other communities," he said in a telephone interview. "I don't think there's any restrictions as to where."

If a deal cannot be done in Fremont, he continued, "we would go back to the league, and ask what they would like us to do next. "... The idea of Major League Baseball is to help us get this done in Fremont. That's the only focus I'm able to think about now."

Alameda County Supervisor Scott Haggerty said it appeared San Jose could be an option for the A's.

"In the discussions I had with the A's yesterday (Monday), that was how they interpreted the letter," he said Tuesday.

However, Tuesday evening, Keith Wolff disputed that.

"We're not interpreting anything. We're not focused on any other communities," he said."

kevin said...

I,m from San jose, and although I lack the age to have been a fan through the 70's(born 1973year of Greatest Team Ever), I consider myself a hardened fan. Ask me any question. Watching replays of Miggy's Homer to win no. 18 brings me to tears. I can't imagine them anywhere Than Oakland. Many a night of my years growing up were spent on the 2 hour trip through milpitas, and fremont, on a then 2 lane 880. I wan't what is best 4 my team. whether it be Sac, Fremont, Monterey, I don't care. As long as they finnaly stop being treated like the Red Headed Step Child with all the TITLES. I never conceded my territorial rights to WEST SAN JOSE. Oakland Has too many problems to get a new stadium done in the next 100 years. How irresponsible would it be. Besides they and you east bayers should have thought of that when AL and the JPA bent them over in 1996. Dammage Done Forever. I love Oakland, I love the bay area, but a stadium is just not going to happen there. Now maybe if they were voted the safest city in the country multible years? That might just help. Thanks ML 4 all the hard work you do. I've been reading this for years. for all you A's suppoters CLAPP CLAPP CLAPP CLAPP CLAPP. LETS GO OAKLAND! See I'm South bay first, but the name change would kill me too. We need you east bay lifers. Your great fans. If they have to go, please bring all your enthusiasm to the SB if only every once and a while. I,'m from here, but I know who you are, and feel your pain. I don't mind the Drive, and wish there was a way we could all be together. Too bad teams don't really belong to te fans.

Tony D. said...


Again, go back over the last two-three months of this blog and get yourself up to're rehashing old arguments that have been debated/interpreted ad naseum. I was one of the first here who was skeptical that "other communities" in fact included San Jose; and I'm probably the biggest San Jose partisan at this site! But after reading quotes from both Wolff's, MLB, and Haggerty himself, I'm a believer now that the Giants T-Rights to San Jose/Santa Clara County are no longer an issue.

Start reading pal!

kevin said...

Speculation is about all we're going to get. If not San Jose,Fremont then where are they going? I don't know the entire political process, but it sure seems to be shaping for this. Theese are the same arguments SJ people have been making for years. The problem was the B.S. imaginary territorial rights. Kyu makes it sound as though they are Federal Law. The only people who care about the TRights are the owners, who lets face it, are all about the most money. At one point it seemed Fremont could make them their money. That is no longer the case. Even with the recession, Wolfe is not going to sit on his hands and wait. He's going to take advantage of it. Conveinently where he/schott wanted all along, and eventually if the MONEY is right they'll come. Hell Lew probably has 6 other cities in mind He'll gladly turn to if need be.

Kyu said...

Tony that was then and this is now. Find me some recent quotes or comments as to where it has been said that will show any argument against my last post.

That's real nice that you've been following since the beginning. I have been too. You're talking to someone who attends 40-45 games a year and has to re-arrange my lifestyle every year during baseball season for six months. So please don't try to question my loyalty to anything that has to do with following anything that goes on with the A's.

Like I said before, I'm not here to start any confrontations with anyone. I just want to see some hard facts before I hear all the South Bay residents jumping the gun that the A's will be moving there.

My point is where they are now, is where they'll be staying for awhile. Before any ground is even broken at any location.

Marine Layer said...

Tony, I'll have the mockup out next week in conjunction with the SV Chamber event.

Anonymous said...

I was at the protest and was shocked at the turnout...I think this movement is going to snowball. In my part of the crowd, the buzz was that many people voted for the City Councilmember Bob Wieckowski and for the Mayor, because they supported the A's stadium. These people said they feel totally betrayed now that's its JUST the stadium and it's going to be out in a neighborhood away from all the businessess and restaurants that were supposed to benefit. And guess what...those protesters weren't from Warm Springs.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:52

Having a hard time following your logic-you said "...the buzz was that many people voted for the City Councilmember Bob Wieckowski and for the Mayor, because they supported the A's stadium. These people said they feel totally betrayed.....And guess what...those protesters weren't from Warm Springs."

So why are they protesting against the A's and not Costco, Kohl's and Lowe's? It wasn't the A's that wanted WS as their number one site--it was because of these companies-

So if your statement is accurate than these people should be protesting out at PC in front of these stores---

Anonymous said...

It amazes me that Kohl's and Lowes are worried about stadium traffic at Pacific Commons. They have been in business there since late 2005/early 2005 and that center is not successful . Their lots are empty , compared to WalMart and Home Depot just a mile or two east,also on AutoMall Pkwy.
I recall how much effort it took the Catellus team to get Costco . We lobbied hard for Dan and his team to land them. Eventually they agreed to move down from Albrae , kicking and screaming the whole while BTW, and opened Mar 17 2005.
If not for Costco ( which in turn attracted In and Out ) ,I feel the place would be deserted 365 day/yr. So I find it laughable that those first two stores are protesting - they should be so lucky to get a potential $1.5 B development dropped into their laps.

Anonymous said...

We do not want any stadium in our backyard. It is not about just WS. It is about how the whole deals are being conducted and negotiated in closed doors by the nonsense Mayor and the greedy A's.

I bet Wolff do not need to walk his kids to school every day. And of course he does not need to rush home to pick up his kids and cook for the family. He has no idea how people live their lives and how much impact we all will get with a 32,000 seat stadium put up 1/2 mile within a neighborhood!

His attitude on that night is so poor and arrogant that what GREED stands for. There are clearly little benefits but hugh disastrous results if this deal moves forward.

We, Fremont Residents, swear that we shall do everything we can to fight against this nonsense.

linusalf said...

i agree with kyu. in this economy the a's are no closer to moving to san jose than they are to portland than they are to getting a new stadium in oakland. i know this blog also serves as a forum for the pro south bay crowd but even if selig opened the door for the santa clara county there is still questions about funding. there seems to be this idea amongst the south bay crowd that all that needs to happen is the t-rights need to go away and the ballpark will appear from thin air. in this economy that isnt going to happen.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:15

Since you like to rant so much about how "greedy" the A's are--maybe you can define what you mean by that---are they asking Fremont to give them any money? If I lived in Fremont ill-informed NIMBY's like you would drive me a democracy...the majority rules and not just those that rant/scream the loudest

Anonymous said...

I live in warm springs (albeit, just south of Mission). Yes, I have concerns with the WS site. I would have to be really blown away with unbiased studies showing no major impact on my way of life, to make me feel better about my concerns. I am in favor of the A's in Fremont (but at the PC site). The difference between PC and WS is that PC was to be built up as a ballpark village. Everyone buying/moving there would know it is ballpark village (and aware of all the potential good or bad that might come with it). The WS stadium would be something that is injected into our already established living area.
Kohls/Costco and the rest do puzzle me. Hundreds of new homes nearby and thousands of people driving by that otherwise wouldn't, and they have a problem with that? Seriously? Because of the possible parking issue? I do go over there for the drive thru Starbucks, In and Out, Claim Jumpers occasionally. Not busy at all has been my observation. I guess the Friday and Saturday business is sufficient. I guess no need for all that pesky ballpark village patronage filling up the otherwise empty parking lots.

Anonymous said...

Marine Layer, Any idea how many regular attending A's Fans the City of Fremont has?


Anonymous said...

Fremont Council Con Artist Susan Lee Chan is in the Developers pockets. There is $500 limit per contributer. Look what the Dutra's do to buy influence!!
Ten Dutras and 3 Dutra related contributed to her campaign-
Guess who will get stadium construction contracts..... Dutra!!

Sue Chan, a candidate for Fremont City Council, has received over 25% of her campaign contributions from developers that will have proposals before the city council in the near future. Among these developers is John Dutra and his entire family. See below for the contributions made by the Dutra family to Sue Chan Fremont City Council Campaign.

John Dutra $500
Bernadine Dutra $500
Lisa Dutra $500
Dominic Dutra $500
Diana Dutra $500
Tony Dutra $500
Dianna Dutra $500
Ann Marie Dutra $500
John J. Dutra $500
Cynthia Dutra Brice $500
Peiffen Liao (CFO of Dutra Enterprise)$250
Alan Cerro (Partner of Dutra Cerro Graden)$250
Landis Graden (Partner of Dutra Cerro Graden)$100

From Form 460 filed October 2008 with Fremont City Clerk.$500 is maximum allowed contribution.

Anonymous said...

The person who will determine the A's fate on the A's side is not Lew Wolf, its John Fisher...lets remember who the (large)majority owner is here

Anonymous said...

I attended the protest and was able to go inside and listen. I was happy about this because originally I was told it would be for only 25 people. I thought it would be chaotic entering the room since they only allowed 500, but people were very considerate upon entering. However,emotions were high once inside. Here are my thoughts. Mr. Wolff compared the WS site to an Arlington BB field at least 4 times in a very positive way. Not knowing a thing about Arlington I assumed it was a new, great stadium, very profitable, residential homes right there, etc... The next day I learned some facts about the Arlington BB field. It turns out that it is composed of a lot of acreage compared to WS and it's been around for awhile. It is very different in many ways, you can look it up yourself to learn about it. This bothered me because he said it is very similar. So what am I supposed to think? Now, I'm thinking to myself why would he a make all of this up. Does he not know himself or does he think everyone is a dummy? It doesn't make sense. I attended the meeting hoping to understand their views, but was very discouraged. They tried to do their best with answering some of the concerns, but had a hard time. I talked to Nina Moore after and she really likes the idea of the site although I told her I didn't think it was right to disrupt the lives of homeowners that live right there. We talked about the parking issue and she said they would put no-parking signs out,cars would be towed, etc.. Why should the people have to deal with that, they were there first? She likes the idea of Bart, although I told her not a huge percentage of people use Bart. It's too expensive.... I felt as though the whole "green" thing was being pushed. I have a hard time with that one. How did I feel after attending the meeting: they're going to push ahead full speed.

Anonymous said...

Builder/developer/realtor donations probably drive the campaigns of local elected officials in 99% of the country.
If you've ever bought gas,bought groceries,bought a car,bought a TV,eaten out,gone to a movie ,lived in an apartment or house YOU didn't buy land/build ,basically if you don't live in a cave on 100% self sustenance - then you were an exploited product of this " graft " going back hundreds of years , LOL!

Transic said...

OT: The Fish aren't having an easy time either,