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06 July 2006

Coliseum BART lot mockup

I promised this a couple weeks ago, so here it is:

According to city records the combined parcels that make up the BART lot make up some 8-9 acres, 10-11 acres including some the extra streets that run through the lot. The neighborhood northeast of the ballpark has no real buffer separating it from the lot aside from some small auto shop/garage-type buildings. Residents there would be impacted by noise and possibly light pollution. The only ways to orient the field are north (shown), east (similar to the Coliseum's field orientation), or south/southeast (field facing Hegenberger Road).

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

Isn't this lot already slated for another transit village?

Anonymous said...

works for me

Marine Layer said...

There's talk of a transit village and a plan is being drawn up, but AFAIK nothing has yet been submitted or is up for review. Something may be submitted by the end of the year.

Anonymous said...

I have to say that though that looks like a just okay place, I doubt it would work.... where would the development that pays for the stadium go?

I think it is Fremont or bust.

Oakland Si said...

The Hegenberger corridor has been slated for quite a bit of development. It's close by -- and Wolffe has said in the past that the development parcel needn't be exactly in the same place as the ballpark.

While I don't believe Wolff & Co. particularly want to stay in Oakland, you never know what might happen. The Fremont site's problems (esp. the public transit issue, but also the wetlands development issue) are not insignificant. I still have a feeling that San José is still Wolff's first choice, but because of the "turf" issues he can't directly go after it.

My personal preference would be for the Raiders to leave and the Coliseum to be fixed up -- but I'm not saying it's currently an option.

Anonymous said...

Where does Oakland's City leadership fall on the idea of the BART parking lot?

I used to think downtown Oakalnd was the only real option for the A's to stay, but I have since become convinced that somewhere in the Hegeberger area is a possibility and a better bet. I don't think the city leadership has ever really been behind working towards a solution on the A's since Robert Bobb left and got DC a team/stadium.

Anybody know anything about that?

Georob said...

As far as the BART parking lot idea is concerned, the only thing that makes it attractive(besides transit access) is that it would fit a stadium and is controlled by only one owner. But that one owner is BART, a public entity. Somehow I don't see them turning over a parking lot for a baseball stadium, even if they got parking in return across the street.

Will someone please tell me why the Coliseum parking lot is no longer being considered?

Anonymous said...

A South Bay home developer doing lots of work in Fremont told me it is going to happen. He has worked closely with the city in recent years to build nearly 500 new homes, so I reckon he knows Fremont's decision makers. He is discussing incurring fee hikes on future projects to subsidize infrastucture buildout. NOTE: despite being a Giants fan for a quarter century, he said he will likely buy A's season tickets.

Anonymous said...

excellent post. the Hegenberger corridor is one thing that has really improved in the Brown era and the East Oakland redevelopment it has initiated is very important, politically, for the A's.

Naturally people in Oakland don't want all of the redevelopment efforts to go toward Downtown and Sf-bound commuter housing.

The single-owner is significant and this mock-up represents an ACTUAL re-development opportunity of a neighborhood that can really benefit from it. It's a very Oakland-centric idea, which is nice to see. Too much of the talk regarding the A's and a new ballpark comes from non-Oakland viewpoints and thus presents unrealistic options of the city. It's not that Oakland can't build a stadium for the A's, it's that Oakland is only going to do it in a way that works and helps the city of Oakland.

Coliseum BART should be seriously considered as a realistic location as it's obstacles are minor compared to those elsewhere and its benefits are significantly ahead of others. If Wolff is serious about staying in Oakland, THIS is the type of project he needs to consider.

Georob said...

Problem is, I don't know of many other times where BART has agreed to relinquish or trade a parking lot for private development. (Transit villages in places like Richmond may be an exception, but that's primarily residential and justified under the category of "good for the community")

BART is a multi-layered public entity with a mission far broader than keeping baseball in Oakland. Even if they were willing to consider the process, I see the whole process as a bureaucratic nightmare.

If the Coliseum BART site is so attractive, then why not the Coliseum itself? Ron Dellums needs to get Lew Wolff, Al Davis, and Ron Cowan together and work out a Coliseum redevelopment plan. And if a parking structure at the BART station can be a part of it, great. But I can't see the BART station being any more than it is now: parking.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:46,
Giants fan in South Bay will buy A's season tickets once they relocate to Fremont. I find this to be very interesting. I'm a SJ resident who will also buy season tickets for the "San Jose A's of Fremont." What's even more interesting is that I have about 10 family members (all residents of SJ) who are "excited" about the A's moving closer to the South Bay, and they have all vowed to buy Season tickets. Sorry Oakland die hards, but with South Bay corporate and fan interest growing for a Fremont Ballpark, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee...A BALLPARK AT THE COLISEUM (or Oakland) WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

Anonymous said...

Anecdotal evidence remains useless. Remember that BART to San Jose was also inevitable and that boondoggle has fortunately withered on the vine and awaits its final nail, patiently.

Not to mention the Mayor of San Jose is under indictment for shady dealings.

The fact remains that baseball requires actual baseball fans to fill its seats. AT&T park is about as good as you can do for non-baseball fan attractions, what with its location near downtown, centerpiece of a new neighborhood, and the Bonds factor to draw interest and publicity. Note that in 2005 when Bonds didn't play until the very end of the year, actual attendnace was WAY off.

It has also been shown around the country that new baseball stadiums have a novelty factor that can diminish greatly in the second five years if not supported by a winning team or an interested fanbase.

A major lack of consideration for boosters of A's to "any other part of the Bay Area but Oakland" is their underestimation of how much the EXISTING fanbase will diminish due to such a move. Many, many current A's fans will lose interest in the team and it will then be forced to rely more heavily as a franchise on "newcomer" fans who are, as you can see in SF, far less reliable in the off years.

I happen to live in San Francisco and am a die-hard A's fan but will not be going to any games in Fremont, certainly not with an added "shuttle" or whatever after BART. Getting to the Coliseum is a bit of a hassle as it is, in large part because once I'm at the Coliseum station there's NOTHING ELSE THERE. When the game ends, you just get right back on BART and go home.

The fact that the A's fanbase is intact after the Schott years indicates it is strong. Any significant effort to cultivate fans and improve the A's-game going experience will lead to a successful franchise, particularly in these waning years of the Giants resurgence.

If the South Bay wants the A's, let's see them become A's fans FIRST. That's not really so hard as the ownership group previous spent a lot of energy on that and the fruits, well, they're not much.

Georob said...

You know, I've read these remarks time and time again and I just don't believe anyone who says: "I won't attend any games in Fremont"

Will these people attend LESS games? Maybe, depending upon where they live and how much of a baseball fan they care to be. But the A's will make up for that by getting new fans in the South Bay.

But to totally stop going to games because the team moves twenty miles away just doesn't make sense. Anonymous is either really not a baseball fan or is flat out lying. And judging from the number of people who've said "they're done" supporting the A's yet still make regular posts to fan sites, I'd say it's the latter.

See you at Pacific Commons, whoever you are!

Anonymous said...

By the way, Fremont has the best fans in all of Baseball. Better than Oakland. We have guys who will wave'em high in the bleachers, LF and RF unlike in Oakland. We have the real "510" unlike the phony in Oakland. Also, we have more banjo and trumpet players in the stands. Fremont Fans know how to represent and come in numbers to sellout!!!!!! We also throw the phattest tailgates in Fremont, better than the Green Stampede ones. We serve steaks not weak ass carne asada!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, we Wave'em High in Fremont!!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:57...If the South Bay wants the A's, let's see them become fans first? Why doesn't "Oakland fan" try selling out the coliseum (35,000) during the week! What's up with this constant 11,000-14,000 attendance during the week crap!? At least South Bay fan has an excuse for not attending games during the week...it's called the horrid, 35 mile crawl on northbound 880. Funny how the coliseum fills up for weekend games...better driving times for South Bay fans (and fans from the Central Valley and San Benito County for that matter). See you all at Pac Commons!!

Anonymous said...

Well, anyone watching the A's right now knows that it's more entertaining on tv, because you can change the channel.

Seriously, the A's are a very, very boring team to watch right now.

Many, many A's fans are OAKLAND A's fans. Out-of-towners buy up the team, piss on the fanbase and move to the suburbs, away from mass transit, even, and you're going to find people question their allegiances.

When the team name changes from "Oakland," it's another team. When a team ditches Oakland so they can build a mall/suburban development, things have changed.

Georob said...

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! The MAJORITY of A's fans are ALREADY IN THE SUBURBS. Oakland is only 400,000 compared to 2.5 million in the East Bay alone, and close to 8 million when you lump in the whole Bay Area.

I'll say this again and again: If the ONLY reason you support the A's is because they play in OAKLAND CITY LIMITS, then you're not real baseball fans.

Anonymous said...

Fremont is where it's at!!!! In Fremont, we have the real A's fans!!!! We will shop up and fill the stadium unlike Oakland!!!! Our fans are more passionate than Oakland. We have REAL fans!!!!! Oakland is going to lose there team soon. Our hockey mask guy in Fremont is the real deal, not that phony guy. He's the real "510"!!!! Fremont has always demonstrated the best fans. We will get the Raiders too since they don't sellout in Oakland. Fremont fans are hardcore!!!! We have the passion and damn it we have better costumes for our fans in the stands!!!!! The hammer guys are weak in Oakland!!!! Our Hammer guys in Fremont have bigger props to wave for the camera!!!!!

Jeff said...

Georob,

I can't think of better argument than what you just pointed out. Most of the A's fans already commute to see a game. I certainly do, and I don't give a rip if I go to Oakland or Fremont. When it's all said and done, I'll probably look back on the Coliseum with nostalgia (especially the costs), but will be happier with the team in a location easier for me to reach. I certainly don't see the logic of those Oakland supporters who fail to see that moving the team 20 miles closer to the largest population base in the area is going to hurt the team. Unequivocally, it's not.

Anonymous said...

You should add that Fremont Fans are the best in baseball. They show up and support the A's unlike Oakland!!!!! Remember, Fremont has the real hock mask fan in LF, the real "510". Also, Fremont has better fans than Boston. Fremont has always shown up to support the A's. Fremont is a classic baseball town like the east coast cities!!!!

Anonymous said...

Why is it they don't use the old home base site?

I was by there the other day and could see it from hegenberger road. It's looks large enough for a ball park.

Georob said...

Well, I guess it would only be a matter of time before the Fremont partisans came out. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but Fremont has only two things: land and location. Not that those aren't important to have, in fact they're probably the ONLY things that matter.

What doesn't matter is this business about "Fremont's great fans" If there wasn't one single A's fan in the entire Washington Township(I wonder how many readers of this blog are saying "what's that?") it wouldn't matter. Fremont has available land in a reasonably good location (I say "reasonably" because of the transit issues) amd THAT'S why the stadium will go there.

In contrast, the city of Oakland still probably has the highest fan/resident ratio of any place, but that's not enough to keep the stadium there by itself.

Yes, Fremont is a city of great A's fans and great people. But so is every other place on the 880 corridor south of Oakland. And if Fremont is the new home of the A's, it'll be due to land and location, not the real 510.