- Typical ambient noise without drums: 72 dB
- Typical ambient noise with drums: 75 dB
- Typical batter intro: 83 dB
- Melhuse grand slam: 102 dB
- Swisher 2-run bomb: 96 dB
When I found that my seat had already been taken, I decided to move up a few rows and stretch out. Beneath me in the better seats were a few hundred folks, all in a large group. They all came early and got their oh-so-ironic Big Hurt jerseys, and they were quite an enthusiastic bunch. Many of them went back and forth from the East Side Club, where beer and food were available.
Then it dawned on me: group sales has to be a big reason for the third deck closure. In the past groups were relegated to the BBQ Plazas or Terraces (AN Day), the Skyview Terrace suites, luxury suites, or simply a bunch of seats that were in a contiguous set (Fremont Day). The advantage of these seats over the third deck is the rather lavish staging area immediately behind them, the East Side Club. ESC has been underutilized because of its location and the fact that the A's usually didn't sell those seats except when demand was high. For group sales, it makes a ton of sense because it provides amenities that aren't available anywhere else in the stadium, coupled with inexpensive seats. If you've gone to one of these company gigs, you know that the location doesn't really matter a whole lot - you're not trying to impress clients with a suite or club seats, you're trying to boost morale among your employees.
By closing the third deck, the A's could provide a fairly compelling option that fills a need that new stadia address automatically: the party deck. The group seemed to be having a good time (it doesn't hurt that the A's are up 12-2 going into the 8th inning). It will certainly help their marketing operations, since they'll have a decent gauge of how well they sell to small, medium, and large groups. Busch Stadium and Petco Park have capitalized on this by building in such accommodations. At Busch, the Cards elected to build fewer luxury suites and more party suties to cater to groups. At Petco, an entire floor of the Western Metal Supply building can be rented, or it can be split into two or three suites.
You may remember this rendering from a few months ago:
In both the LF and RF corners, below the luxury suites, are what have to be party suites. Why put those there? If you were here tonight, you'd see why: the upper tier of Field Level sections 101-103 and 131-133 are completely empty. Just as apartment buildings get converted to condos, it makes sense to convert these seats into a more sellable space. Such is the nature of a party suite or deck.
16 comments:
Ah, I knew I'd get this type of reaction. I didn't say that group sales was the reason, it's simply a reason.
There are plenty of other rationales I've delineated in the past over the third deck closure. Mostly it comes down to the team not wanting to selling what amounted to as many as 10,000 general admission seats, which for most games is exactly what the third deck was. Sections 315-319 have a unique core audience, but the rest of the third deck had varying numbers of fans, of which many moved down to Plaza and Field levels once they got in the park.
The fact is that the Coliseum had few places where they could hold 100-200 people or more and stage them nearby. ESC certainly got use but it was often disconnected from the game experience. Now that Plaza Reserved is always open, so is ESC.
I'm not saying it's right - far from it. I went to the game for $5 so I'm not their target audience. I've gotten dozens of e-mails from fans who feel alienated. I sympathize greatly. But it makes sense for the exact reason you state: they are trying to overlay the economics of a smaller premium ballpark onto the existing Coliseum, like it or not.
They're trying to understand how they can sell every possible area of the park, and by extension a new park as well. Notice the DiamondVision cap game recently? It seems it has a different sponsor every night. The tarps don't have ads now, but by having them up there they can gauge ad revenue potential. I pointed out before the plasma screens on the Field level concourse. They don't show scores or in-game replays. They only show ads.
Was last night "Fremont Night"? If so, I'm curious if there was any reaction when(and if) it was announced on the PA.
I saw a post of Drummer's on the OAFC board in which he said that "things would get ugly" if a Fremont deal was finalized before the end of the season, and that attendance would "plummet" especially once ground was broken.
This is obviously the "same old same old" we'll hear from Oakland supporters, but it DID get me to thinking if frivolous lawsuits and court injunctions to stop a Fremont ballpark is something we might expect to see
Remember, this IS the Bay Area; and while such an action would have no legal foundation it COULD serve as a big enough distraction to possibly intimidate Lew Wolff. All the more reason why the transit issues need to be addressed sooner than later. For once environmental advocacy groups get involved, you've got a whole new "ball game"
Attendance will plummet? That's hilarious... You'd think these people have never been further away than 10 blocks from their houses.
A's attendance will plummet if the A's move to Fremont? He must think the A's are moving to Fremont, New Hampshire.
That's not an FU attitude frstup. It's apathy. If it wasn't there'd be a lot more public outcry.
And there it is ML. You nailed it. Apathy on the part of the Oakland "fanbase" will prove fatal to the OAFC's hopes.
You know, the A's could help us resolve a lot of arguments by releasing data on where the fans come from. Surely they have enough zip code data from advance ticket sales to draw some reasonable conclusions.
Oakland will no doubt be a sizeable contributor, but I've always thought that Southern Alameda County is where the largest contingent comes from. And it is THAT group that a Fremont park should have no problems retaining.
My concern is Central Contra Costa, and it is that lucrative group that the A's may be at risk of losing. And somehow, I don't see the OAFC being an advocate for fans in that area (even though a lot of PLAYERS live there :))
So Drummer, instead of evoking words like "history", "tradition", and "legacy" to keep the A's in Oakland, you might instead want to use "Walnut Creek", "Alamo", and "Blackhawk"
That'd get Lew Wolff's attention!
I have acknowledged Contra Costa as a very large contigent of the A's fan base numerous times. Contra Costa is the fastest growing region in the Bay Area, why would you want to lose those many of those fans, especially when a large number of them take BART.
I do feel that you will see a drop in attendence if Wolff announces he's moving to Fremont during the middle of a season. I think that is part of the reason why Wolff has been reluctant to fully say that the deal is done or making hints that he does not want to leave the district. he knows he will lose attendence. The word I used "plummet", was an exaggeration, sorry if it confused people. No attendence won't "plummet", but you will see a decrease. It's great that I'm so popular on A's boards these days. I gotta watch what i say now, make sure it's pc.
Back to ML's post, it's not just companies and little league groups that buy group seats, a lot of schools get group seats for field trips or parties. I do wonder if the closure of the third deck and the increased ticket prices have dissuaded many of these groups from buying those packages.
The reason nothing's been said about the deal being done is THE DEAL IS NOT DONE. There's a long way to go and plenty of challenges to face. Attendance has always and will continue to be mostly influenced by performance.
This year the A's have gone a long way towards informing potential group sales customers about available options. The website has been revamped to show all price levels. With the reduced capacity, it was a good way to let customers know that small group sales haven't completely disappeared.
Fess up, Drummer. You used the word "plummet" to get a reaction from the already emotional crowd on the OAFC board. Just as JRBH did here with his "I'm cancelling my season tickets" proclamation.
This is why I make sarcastic comments in response. Rhamesis has to play the role of "reasoned" moderator, I don't.
It's amazing that so many just assume that the A's will lose at least HALF their fans by moving only 20 miles away. Has everyone forgotten how many Raider fans stayed loyal to the team even though they were FOUR HUNDRED miles away?
But I guess that's how we discuss things in today's world. Whether it be immigration or a new baseball stadium, playing to peoples' fears is very effective
Okay, attendance is off by about 60K so far. Roughly half of that we could have picked up had we not closed off the third deck for the opening Yankees series(the weather was a factor there as well)
So that leaves us off by about 1500 per game. And yes, I'd attribute much of that to former third-deckers who feel like they can't get in on the cheap and move downstairs.
But I, and probably the A's expected this. Which is why I was hopeful that the team for once would get off to a good start. Well, being at or near .500 by the end of May COULD qualify for that, we'll see.
However, I really feel we're not going to see the TRUE effect of closing off the third deck until next year. And for now, we're going to take another big hit by not being able to squeeze in 50K for the three game Giants series.
So here's a question: Let's say Barry Bonds was about to break AARON'S record instead of Ruth's. Do you think Wolff would pull off the upper deck tarps for this one series?
As a public service to the Bay Area, I say he would.
That's right, attack the messenger. I've extended an offer to anyone in the stay-in-Oakland crowd to submit info on the Oakland mayoral race. I've asked about other site ideas because frankly I'm stumped. I've stated that I'll post directly to this blog whatever anyone submits (some editing for spelling/grammar notwithstanding).
I've gotten ZERO responses to the requests. That to me is apathy. Richard Linklater once said, "Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy." That's true, but you'll have to prove that it's the former. I hear of isolated cases of fans withdrawing from season ticket purchases and such. I don't feel a groundswell of disgust. If it's there, it's not protesting outside the ballpark or at the BART station. It's not making many signs in the ballpark. It's not vocal enough to show up on local TV newscasts.
Tell you what, frstup. If you have ideas on how to boost the A's revenue while keeping last year status quo, you send them to me and I'll post them. I'm all for a counterpoint. It simply hasn't been there.
If you read ML's previous post regarding how attendance figures are counted, then you know that a difference of 1,500/game this early in the season isn't a huge deal.
To back up the idea that attendance figures are questionable in general, I took a tour of the Coliseum on an off day last year during the season. The A's director of stadium operations gave the tour and admitted that the official attendance figure given for each game is way way off from the actual attendance (paid or present). He all but admitted that they guess and then pad it.
ML, just want to let you know how much I appreciate this blog site and the tremendous depth of your research. Thank you.
Actually, the gulf will go DOWN. Home dates 21-23 last year were as follows:
May 18 vs Boston: 42K
May 30 vs Tampa Bay: 25K
May 31 vs Tampa Bay: 11K
That's an average of 26-27K per game. The A's will do better than that this weekend.
Obviously things will even out. But like others have done, you're using "selective data" to make a point.
JRBH:
Before I dissect your "season ticket cancellation" again, let me say that your little "TM" next to the "IDLF Dumbest Politician" statement had me practically on the floor laughing.
Now, I fully understand your frustration with A's management. But if I were that upset, I'd sever all ties and not go to ANY games. But cancelling tickets to some games and still going to others makes no sense. It may be just FOUR games, but Lew Wolff is STILL making a profit off of you.
You say that the "tipping point" was the closure of the third deck, fair enough. That was announced in DECEMBER my friend, on the same day that the season schedule was announced. Therefore, in all likelihood, you bought your partial plan AFTER the third deck announcement that was the "last straw" It doesn't make sense.
I can't imagine anyone buying a partial plan without knowing the season schedule, but let's suppose you did. You then waited THREE MONTHS to cancel it? Your announcement of the cancellation to us was made on or after March 20, and when I expressed doubts you insisted that you had gone IN PERSON that day to cancel it.
It doesn't make sense, Jeff. None of it makes sense. Except that you said it to score rhetorical points and get everyone riled up, (it certainly did ME)
Call it "splitting hairs", or engaging in a "pissing match", but someone's got to call these nonsensical arguments from the "Oakland only" supporters
for what they are.
They don't make sense.
Saying that fan apathy is caused by Wolff threatening to move to Fremont is laughable. What percentage of the A's attendance reside in Oakland? 10%? 15%?
Post a Comment