tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post8257015641603158676..comments2023-10-16T03:27:54.609-07:00Comments on new A's ballpark: Oakland hinting at Howard TerminalMarine Layerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13515986023439927575noreply@blogger.comBlogger128125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-82670841635550053182009-05-26T03:12:14.318-07:002009-05-26T03:12:14.318-07:00Anon 5/19/09 8:39 PM your comment is just dumb. Yo...Anon 5/19/09 8:39 PM your comment is just dumb. You put it like there are only 8000 A's fans, cause that's the number of season ticket holders. Also this comment "True A's fans support a new ballpark for their team where they can compete in todays economic realities of MLB---thats SJ--not Oakland--" true A's fans have supported Oakland for years. A real A's fan should be happy with where the A's are now, but be open to a new park...in Oakland. So you just sperated yourself from a true fan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-37273694497565821292009-05-20T08:28:02.155-07:002009-05-20T08:28:02.155-07:00I'll give ML a couple cases of homebrew if he turn...I'll give ML a couple cases of homebrew if he turns off anon access. I can't keep straight who is yelling at who anymore.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479778667366453088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-77689235316583910282009-05-19T22:02:53.983-07:002009-05-19T22:02:53.983-07:00Anon 9:34--what type of troll are you?Anon 9:34--what type of troll are you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-41702817233831316472009-05-19T21:34:40.166-07:002009-05-19T21:34:40.166-07:00The internet is clearing crawling with A's -to- SJ...The internet is clearing crawling with A's -to- SJ trolls who have nothing better to do but follow development news. Not everyone is like you. The internet is an echo chamber.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-51921890397956746182009-05-19T20:39:10.777-07:002009-05-19T20:39:10.777-07:00Anon 7:24---1M fans will be lost when the A's move...Anon 7:24---1M fans will be lost when the A's move to SJ? Given that there are only 8000 full and partial season tix that is quite an exaggeration--<br /><br />BTW--I have 4 of those 8000---and I support the A's move to SJ---so lets cut the crap that you speak on behalf of A's fans--you don't--<br /><br />True A's fans support a new ballpark for their team where they can compete in todays economic realities of MLB---thats SJ--not Oakland--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-20483551389818911062009-05-19T20:24:50.312-07:002009-05-19T20:24:50.312-07:00"A ferry ride from the SF Ferry Terminal downtown ..."A ferry ride from the SF Ferry Terminal downtown right to the doorstep of the A's new ballpark and the bars, restaurants and entertainment district that surround it will be quite an attraction for the SF crowd."<br /><br />Because lord knows there's a shortage of ferry rides and entertainment districts in San Francisco.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-25371044527317540862009-05-19T20:23:40.900-07:002009-05-19T20:23:40.900-07:00"Dear San Jose: Get your own team"
Working on it..."Dear San Jose: Get your own team" <br /><br />Working on it, thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-9080700144838909852009-05-19T20:22:30.113-07:002009-05-19T20:22:30.113-07:00"Thanks for confirming the above Anonymous by knoc..."Thanks for confirming the above Anonymous by knocking Oakland at every opportunity."<br /><br />I'm not knocking Oakland, I think it's a fine city. I'm glad some good things are happening there, and I hope it continues its resurgence. I have some personal ties to Oakland, and a lot of good memories there.<br /><br />At the same time, I leave in the real world. Facts are, Oakland has little corporate base, sits right next to a much more popular baseball competitor, and has a poor history of supporting MLB. I don't think it's the best place in the region for a second major league team, and I definitely don't think it can bring the support needed to pay off a privately financed ballpark.<br /><br />Making these observations is not knocking the city. Get over it.<br /><br />"The fact is that San Jose is trying to relocate a team from another city."<br /><br />As Oakland did to obtain the team in the first place. Get off your high horse. Difference is, the team will stay in market, and all its existing fans will continue to be able to see their team. And the alternative to San Jose is someplace out of state. These are big differences. <br /><br />"The fans will not be moving with the team, you can bet on it."<br /><br />Actually, I'd bet a lot of money the other way. A lot of East Bay fans are about equidistant from San Jose and Oakland. A lot already work down here, and will have an easier time making games after the workday than they currently do. And a lot are realists, and excited about the chance to have a new ballpark, and a team with more resources to compete, when they know it's not going to happen in the East Bay.<br /><br />"Sure, a few tens of thousands of A's fans are already in the South Bay but that hardly replaces the million they will lose leaving the East Bay."<br /><br />I think you're a little math impaired. There are 2 million people in the South Bay; we have many more than "a few tens of thousands" of A's fans. There are 2 1/2 million people in the East Bay; if a million of them are fans, they sure aren't showing up at the turnstiles. And as noted above, the vast majority of them will remain fans.<br /><br />Further, it's about expanding the market for MLB overall. A lot of Giants fans will go to San Jose A's games, either for the convenience, or out of civic pride. <br /><br />"Finally, why would fans openly advocate the ownership's attempt to treat them as second-class citizens? Why would you actually care about luxury boxes? Are you buying a luxury box season-ticket plan? I highly doubt it."<br /><br />I don't think anyone sane thinks they're being treated as a second class citizen. I care about the luxury boxes because they will finance the construction of a new ballpark which will greatly enhance my game day experience, whether or not I sit in the boxes. I also care about the luxury boxes because they will enable the team to keep more of the star players we all grow to know and love.<br /><br />"In my opinion a team needs adequate corporate support and a loyal, dedicated fanbase to thrive in MLB. It is this loyal fanbase, that feels connected to the organization through a shared hometown, that will get you through the rough times and give your ballpark and team character."<br /><br />The South Bay has the corporate support, the East Bay does not. The South Bay is hungry for sports, the East Bay is currently oversaturated. And the South Bay has a history of raging support for niche sports like the NHL and Arena Football; the East Bay has a history of ignoring championship caliber baseball teams. Thank you for helping make the case for the South Bay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-9398849789700979252009-05-19T19:26:53.709-07:002009-05-19T19:26:53.709-07:00SF and Oakland do have entirely different identiti...SF and Oakland do have entirely different identities. But if there is something cool happening in Oakland people from SF will go there. <br /><br />A ferry ride from the SF Ferry Terminal downtown right to the doorstep of the A's new ballpark and the bars, restaurants and entertainment district that surround it will be quite an attraction for the SF crowd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-26070072112522549522009-05-19T19:24:37.247-07:002009-05-19T19:24:37.247-07:00Thanks for confirming the above Anonymous by knock...Thanks for confirming the above Anonymous by knocking Oakland at every opportunity.<br /><br />The fact is that San Jose is trying to relocate a team from another city. Tearing down that other city is ugly, insulting and short-sighted. The fans will not be moving with the team, you can bet on it. Sure, a few tens of thousands of A's fans are already in the South Bay but that hardly replaces the million they will lose leaving the East Bay. <br /><br />It's hard to justify this, even as a callous and cold business move, when you are in trouble already by advocating the jettisoning of an existing customer base in hopes that a superior one will materialize in an unproven market for MLB.<br /><br />Finally, why would fans openly advocate the ownership's attempt to treat them as second-class citizens? Why would you actually care about luxury boxes? Are you buying a luxury box season-ticket plan? I highly doubt it.<br /><br />In my opinion a team needs adequate corporate support and a loyal, dedicated fanbase to thrive in MLB. It is this loyal fanbase, that feels connected to the organization through a shared hometown, that will get you through the rough times and give your ballpark and team character.<br /><br />Dear San Jose: Get your own team and leave ours out of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-9845345906614713182009-05-19T19:13:53.268-07:002009-05-19T19:13:53.268-07:00It's ridiculous how Oaklanders piggbyback on San F...It's ridiculous how Oaklanders piggbyback on San Francisco when it's convenient but maintain that they're a totally separate identity. Why does access from SF matter so much if you're like "Washington and Baltimore?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-54717882332658221152009-05-19T15:43:24.488-07:002009-05-19T15:43:24.488-07:00"As for the cost of moving Matson that is entirely..."As for the cost of moving Matson that is entirely speculative and the way that pencils out could vary widely. Their facilities aren't much and this "move" might actually benefit them. The real costs may be very limited."<br /><br />It may be speculative, but we know the number will be large. And the answer may very likely be a flat, "no." The big box stores in Fremont weren't extraordinarily generous when it came to possible disruption of their business, and a lot less was being asked of them.<br /><br />"In terms of the site itself I see no reasonable way to say Diridon is superior."<br /><br />The Diridon site is nearly acquired and ready, with a certified EIR. It has far more existing urban life and entertainment options around it. It sits next to the future transit hub of all northern California. It provides superior access to an affluent population that isn't sports saturated llke the East Bay. And it provides superior access to the corporate base of Silicon Valley. <br /><br />"All arguments thus far relate to the merits of Oakland versus San Jose."<br /><br />Not hardly. Did you just start reading this blog this morning?<br /><br />"Yes, we know you South Bay-ers have a chip on your shoulder and are always trying to prove to everyone you're a real city"<br /><br />Sheesh, talk about lack of self-awareness. San Jose may have an inferiority complex but for God's sake, so does Oakland.<br /><br />"but the facts remain and San Jose simply does not have the urban reality that Oakland does."<br /><br />Part of that "urban reality" is crime, or the perception of crime. Don't think that doesn't play a factor also.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-58721914752605946282009-05-19T15:43:13.878-07:002009-05-19T15:43:13.878-07:00"I'm also enjoying how some of you ignore the 20-4..."I'm also enjoying how some of you ignore the 20-40 minutes of extra driving time as if that doesn't matter."<br /><br />We're not ignoring it; that's the entire point. That's why MLB is not drawing as many people from the South Bay as they could; because getting to games on a weeknight is an ordeal, and more than half the games are played on weeknights. <br /><br />From the standpoint of maximizing the market for baseball, it makes little sense to put two parks within eight miles of each other. All it does is split the market of baseball fans in that geographic area. Whereas putting a park in the South Bay provides reasonable access for millions of affluent fans who didn't have it before.<br /><br />And, as pointed out before, the burden isn't the same for East Bay fans because so many of them work over here in the first place.<br /><br />"Finally, ownership that is dead-set on moving a team out of one city into another is entirely conflicted in terms of rating the markets. They are not comparing them equally, they are trying to make their measurements fit their pre-determined conclusion."<br /><br />This is idiotic. Billionaires don't become billionaires because they ignore economics while trying to make their business analysis fit pre-determined conclusions. Lew Wolff is not even from San Jose; he has little reason to favor it over Oakland for any reason other than business. <br /><br />And what about Giants ownership? What is their theoretical bias causing them to hand the A's the lucrative East Bay market and keep the less desirable South Bay market for themselves?<br /><br />Face it, the folks who know the market best and have an actual financial stake have ALL made the judgment that the South Bay is more valuable than the East Bay. Deal with it. <br /><br />"As for the Howard Terminal costs, ML has nicely thrown in a huge amount of money that is not necessary to build the ballpark and serves only to inflate those costs. BART Infill and light rail is not necessary but it is possible and desirable for the ciyt BEYOND the context of the ballpark. These costs are also not pure ballpark costs."<br /><br />Environmental remediation is a necessary cost. Redoing the roads is a necessary cost. Making the area pedestrian safe is a necessary cost. Paying off Matson to move is a necessary cost (if they're even willing to do it, which is questionaable).<br /><br />"Further they compare very favorably to the 10-years off BART and HSR options at Diridon. Now THOSE are expensive transit improvements!"<br /><br />Those are no more necessary for a Diridon yard than BART infill or people movers are for an Oakland yard. Some logical consistency, please.<br /><br />On the other hand, those projects are actually underway and have funding in place, unlike BART infill/people mover fantasies. They are far more likely to actually happen. <br /><br />And as for them being 10 years off, it'll probably take about five years to get a ballpark built. Once built, it'll be there for anywhere between 40 and 100 years. When it's due for replacement, it likely will be rebuilt on the same site. So it makes sense to think long term when making the siting decision.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-15426530425051115322009-05-19T15:42:47.105-07:002009-05-19T15:42:47.105-07:00"The only people who go between the two frequ..."The only people who go between the two frequently are those who live in the East Bay and work in SF. Everybody else lives on their side of the bay 95% of the time. This is not a Manhattan/Brooklyn divide, it's more like Baltimore and Washington, DC."<br /><br />This argument actually undercuts the notion Oakland can support an MLB team.<br /><br />"The SF Bay Area has 7 million residents. I think less than half of major league "single team" markets contain 3.5 million residents. There is plenty of room for two teams and if there weren't, moving one down to San Jose would not change this."<br /><br />I agree the Bay Area can support two teams. The most logical way of doing so is to have the parks at different ends of they Bay so that the majority of people have convenient access to a park (i.e. putting the maximum number of people within 21 miles), not having them bunched up in the same functional location so that some people have their choice of two parks and millions of others face an ordeal to get to either.<br /><br />"San Jose is NOT particularly accessible for most people in San Francisco or anywhere in the East Bay north of Hayward/Pleasanton."<br /><br />San Francisco has its own team. San Jose is just as accessible to people in Oakland as Oakland is to San Jose. A big difference though is that a HUGE percentage of East Bay folks actually WORK in Silicon Valley, whereas almost no one from the South Bay or peninsula work in the East Bay. Meaning: A lot of East Bay fans will find a San Jose yard only a short hop from their offices, if not their homes. Folks north of Oakland will still have easy access to AT&T park.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-89289669725707050762009-05-19T15:42:04.234-07:002009-05-19T15:42:04.234-07:00"The Diridon site's neighborhood compares extremel..."The Diridon site's neighborhood compares extremely poorly to downtown Oakland. You've got to be high to seriously suggest otherwise."<br /><br />It's not me that's smoking something. Downtown San Jose rocks; you can barely find parking on the weekends these days. It is full of new luxury condos people are actually buying. It has something like 35 clubs which actually fill up on the weekend.<br /><br />Oakland has struggling Jack London Square and some new restaurants near Uptown. I'll take the urban life San Jose offers over Oakland any day of the week.<br /><br />"Also, Fresno residents can get to downtown Oakland as easily as they can get to downtown San Jose, not that they're likely to do either. Yes, I consider the central valley part of the Oakland A's future natural territory but moving to San Jose doesn't actually make that easier."<br /><br />Fresno residents aren't going to either city for ballgames until high speed rail is built. You may have missed the memo, but HSR is not going to the East Bay.<br /><br />"San Jose is fully auto-dependent no matter how many trains you build for your housekeepers. I've lived in San Jose, San Francisco and Oakland and there is simply no comparison of urban life or density where San Jose enters the conversation."<br /><br />Caltrain gets extremely good ridership. San Jose will be the future transit hub of all Northern California. As has been pointed out repeatedly, only 15% of A's fans ride BART to games now; Oakland is hardly less auto-dependent than San Jose. The East Bay is not all that much denser than San Jose, and the main result of that extra density will be it will continue to see less growth in the "urban core" you are touting. <br /><br />"San Francisco and the Giants are not in the "same economic zone" as the A's and the East Bay. That is bollocks. They are distinctly different cities with greatly intertwined markets but separate identities nonetheless."<br /><br />I actually mostly agree with you on this; it's YOUR side that keeps arguing they are the same market, because the East Bay has no corporate base of its own to buy the premium seating necessary to support a modern MLB team. Thisplanetsux is on here constantly ranting about all the San Francisco corporations that are going to abandon the Giants to buy suites at an Oakland yard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-67356437194227954832009-05-19T15:34:02.325-07:002009-05-19T15:34:02.325-07:00"I'm also enjoying how some of you ignore the 20-4..."I'm also enjoying how some of you ignore the 20-40 minutes of extra driving time as if that doesn't matter."<br /><br />You point this out yet say that an infill BART station isn't necessary. If one doesn't get built, the walk from 12th St to Howard Terminal will be an extra 20 minutes in each direction. Does that not matter? <br /><br />If you don't build some kind of transit bridge, what are you telling the public? "Oh, we want the team to stay on our terms but aren't willing to invest enough to make it convenient." Now that's sending a message. FWIW, China Basin works in large part because of SF bringing Muni a similar distance from Market St to South Beach. Transit usage would be far less if fans were forced to either walk or take the 30/45 bus.<br /><br />The infrastructure improvements being planned for the Diridon area are meant to improve the regional transit hub for the South Bay. They're a good investment whether or not a ballpark comes in.Marine Layerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13515986023439927575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-27677676984482244392009-05-19T15:30:40.984-07:002009-05-19T15:30:40.984-07:00Try to let go of your partisanship. Look, there ar...Try to let go of your partisanship. Look, there are two good downtown options, each of which has obstacles to overcome. For Oakland that is sizable and expensive infrastructure improvements. For SJ it is territorial rights. As local A's fans we should hope that one of them can overcome those obstacles so we still have a team to root for. Either one would be a huge improvement over what we have today and I would be thrilled.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-63427773250367865782009-05-19T15:04:12.170-07:002009-05-19T15:04:12.170-07:00Now I'm a huge supporter of high speed rail, but I...Now I'm a huge supporter of high speed rail, but I seriously don't think it will have much of an impact on the ballpark. HSR will serve fans in Fresno...but that's about it.<br /><br />The location near CalTrain isn't of any benefit to the majority of fans. Sure, people on the Peninsula can get to games, but most are Giants fans. (I know there are A's fans, but they are the minority)<br /><br />Most A's fans that reside in the East Bay are still at a loss for public transportation. Sure BART will make its way to downtown San Jose someday, but that isn't a very viable option for A's fans in Berkeley, Concord, etc. It would take ages to get to San Jose via BART.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14601192414117336050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-14547928445497436952009-05-19T14:49:21.785-07:002009-05-19T14:49:21.785-07:00Anon 11:28
Yankee Stadium and Citi Field are 10 m...Anon 11:28<br /><br />Yankee Stadium and Citi Field are 10 miles apart.<br /><br />Wrigley Field and Comiskey Park are 10 miles apart<br /><br />Dodger Stadium and the Angels stadium are 30 miles apart.<br /><br />None of these are separated by a large body of water with only one bridge and one rail link.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-83036961331213338232009-05-19T14:45:03.746-07:002009-05-19T14:45:03.746-07:00The Diridon site's neighborhood compares extremely...The Diridon site's neighborhood compares extremely poorly to downtown Oakland. You've got to be high to seriously suggest otherwise. Also, Fresno residents can get to downtown Oakland as easily as they can get to downtown San Jose, not that they're likely to do either. Yes, I consider the central valley part of the Oakland A's future natural territory but moving to San Jose doesn't actually make that easier.<br /><br />San Jose is fully auto-dependent no matter how many trains you build for your housekeepers. I've lived in San Jose, San Francisco and Oakland and there is simply no comparison of urban life or density where San Jose enters the conversation.<br /><br />San Francisco and the Giants are not in the "same economic zone" as the A's and the East Bay. That is bollocks. They are distinctly different cities with greatly intertwined markets but separate identities nonetheless. The only people who go between the two frequently are those who live in the East Bay and work in SF. Everybody else lives on their side of the bay 95% of the time. This is not a Manhattan/Brooklyn divide, it's more like Baltimore and Washington, DC<br /><br />The SF Bay Area has 7 million residents. I think less than half of major league "single team" markets contain 3.5 million residents. There is plenty of room for two teams and if there weren't, moving one down to San Jose would not change this.<br /><br />San Jose is NOT particularly accessible for most people in San Francisco or anywhere in the East Bay north of Hayward/Pleasanton.<br /><br />I'm also enjoying how some of you ignore the 20-40 minutes of extra driving time as if that doesn't matter.<br /><br />Finally, ownership that is dead-set on moving a team out of one city into another is entirely conflicted in terms of rating the markets. They are not comparing them equally, they are trying to make their measurements fit their pre-determined conclusion. <br /><br />As for the Howard Terminal costs, ML has nicely thrown in a huge amount of money that is not necessary to build the ballpark and serves only to inflate those costs. BART Infill and light rail is not necessary but it is possible and desirable for the ciyt BEYOND the context of the ballpark. These costs are also not pure ballpark costs. Further they compare very favorably to the 10-years off BART and HSR options at Diridon. Now THOSE are expensive transit improvements!<br /><br />As for the cost of moving Matson that is entirely speculative and the way that pencils out could vary widely. Their facilities aren't much and this "move" might actually benefit them. The real costs may be very limited.<br /><br />In terms of the site itself I see no reasonable way to say Diridon is superior. All arguments thus far relate to the merits of Oakland versus San Jose. Yes, we know you South Bay-ers have a chip on your shoulder and are always trying to prove to everyone you're a real city but the facts remain and San Jose simply does not have the urban reality that Oakland does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-77086820466494651902009-05-19T11:53:00.000-07:002009-05-19T11:53:00.000-07:00Anon 11:25--BART, which as 2 approved sales tax in...Anon 11:25--BART, which as 2 approved sales tax increases and is breaking ground on the first phase of the extension to SJ this summer and HSR, currently conducting the EIR for the first phase of SF to SJ, are much more probable of being completed than Oakland having $300M to invest in infrastructure improvements to prepare a site for a ballpark--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-73928467812262115012009-05-19T11:28:00.000-07:002009-05-19T11:28:00.000-07:00Anon 10:57-- excellent post---personally I am so t...Anon 10:57-- excellent post---personally I am so tired of the same ridiculous arguments of the OAFC group that I just choose to ignore them--Thx for taking the time to set the record straight--<br /><br />Setting aside all of the economic/funding challenges--which are deal stoppers for this site--- MLB is not about to have 2 of the same ballparks 10 miles apart---<br /><br />Building in Fremont helped to create some distance as will building in San Jose--I can only hope that near term MLB acts to open the door to SJ so that the OAFC'ers will take a back seat--Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-14124763823118275222009-05-19T11:25:00.000-07:002009-05-19T11:25:00.000-07:00Please stop mentioning how sj has BART and high sp...Please stop mentioning how sj has BART and high speed rail coming like its even going to happen in the next 10 years. The BART extension to the south bay was in the original plans for BART in the late 60's and guess what it still hasn't happened. Oh and with California's budget deficit I'm sure construction on high speed rail will start right away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-53462259559003196792009-05-19T10:57:00.000-07:002009-05-19T10:57:00.000-07:00"The opinion as to the viability of the site ..."The opinion as to the viability of the site as determined by a conflicted interest such as Wolff and S/H is absolutely worthless."<br /><br />Conflicted how, exactly? It's hard for me to imagine a less-conflicted party that the team owner. Their fundamental interest is, "Where will the team do best economically?" They have every incentive to be steely-eyed realists. It is crazed, sentimental bloggers who have reason for bias.<br /><br />"The centrality of the Howard Terminal site is fantastic."<br /><br />It's central, but so is AT&T Park. No compelling case to build another park serving the same economic area.<br /><br />"No site offered thus far has this much synergy surrounding it."<br /><br />Diridon easily has this much synergy surrounding it, and with BART and high-speed rail, will have more so in future. Oakland partisans keep blathering about supposedly being "central to the Bay Area." How about being "central to the entire northern half of the state, including Fresno and Sacramento?"<br /><br />"Keep in mind that this is the key determinant of new ballpark success in MLB for the past decades."<br /><br />Based on what, exactly? You cite no statistical support for your premise. <br /><br />Anyway, the vast majority of new ballparks have been built in one-team markets, where the dynamics are totally different. You have exactly zero examples of two team markets which were enhanced by building both parks in what is functionally the same location.<br /><br />"This site has beautiful potential. Amtrak access is a huge deal, allowing fans from all over the north bay and even Sacramento to easily get to games."<br /><br />Diridon has Amtrak. And Caltrain, ACE, light rail, and eventually BART and HSR.<br /><br />"Those fans are the ones who are most likely to stay for dinner and shopping and other entertainment. Going all the way down to Oakland to be at the Coliseum isn't worth it. To be at the Oakland waterfront is an entirely different story."<br /><br />As is being in downtown San Jose.<br /><br />"The need to improve freeway access to JLS has been known for sometime. Reconifiguration of some surface features of the area can go a long mile toward this. Oakland can use ballpark development as an impetus to improve this entire area.<br /><br />As BART is at the surface within 3 blocks there is some potential for an in-fill station.<br /><br />Oakland has also considered a downtown-circulating light rail line for some time. The need to tie JLS/Watefront into downtown and the lake has been there for some time. This may prove a wiser investment than say BART infill."<br /><br />Great, so you admit the site needs several hundred million dollars of infrastructure. Where are you getting your funding?<br /><br />"Please take any arguments about "Oakland not supporting the team" out of here. Oakland has had only one decent ownership group and when that group was here the team was well-attended."<br /><br />That's crap. Apparently your definition of "decent ownership" is "willing to lose tens of millions of dollars a year to subsidize all-star teams for an ungrateful fan base." And even your model, the sainted Walter Haas, only averaged 19,000 per game in his tenure - same as your hated carpetbagger, Steve Schott. <br /><br />"Further, they are better attended now than most MLB teams were twenty years ago."<br /><br />Now there's a completely irrelevant statistic for you. And did you know the San Jose Stealth draw bigger crowds than the average MLB team in 1898? Wow!<br /><br />"Consider also that their park is nearly universally derided, in a nowhere location"<br /><br />Except that you OAFC folks spent hours here defending it when it seemed the only options were there or Fremont. And you'll do so again once Howard Terminal gets ruled out based on cost. For now, the Coli site is suddenly the source of all your attendance woes. Hypocrites.<br /><br />"...and with ownership that has spent a DECADE doing their best real-life impression of "Major League."<br /><br />With GREAT ownership committed to building a new ballpark in the home market with their own money.<br /><br />"Could these efforts have put a damper on attendance? Of course they could and in fact I know they have."<br /><br />Thank you for sharing your great wisdom, all-knowing anonymous blogger.<br /><br />"Let's stop pretending that all of these people think San Jose is the same place. It's not and for most of us it is "out of town."<br /><br />It's you OAFCers who keep arguing we're all one big happy Bay Area when it comes to the subject to the East Bay's lack of corporate base. Then, for some reason, we're expected to believe thousands of Silicon Valley corporate executives will choose to fight two hours of Nimitz traffic rather than hopping a train to AT&T Park.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11432525.post-5517502966555755832009-05-19T09:32:00.000-07:002009-05-19T09:32:00.000-07:00Oh no! shopgirl, who obviously isn't even a fan to...Oh no! shopgirl, who obviously isn't even a fan to begin with, won't go to any games while Wolff owns the team. What will we do if a non-fan doesn't attend games???? That's it. I change my mind. Wolff has to build in Oakland and foot the entire enormous bill so an uninformed non-fan might go to a game sometime in the future!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com